simonrl
  • simonrl
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18 years ago
But perhaps if somebody is looking for Blue John then they'll know it (most likely, and unless they've a fiarly good knowledge of minerals) as 'Blue John', not as 'flourite'. Hence if somebody wants to add a mine that is known world-wide as a source of Blue John they may prefer to add it as 'Blue John', and perhaps put in the mine description that it is actually nothign more than pretty flourite. Conversely if somebody wants to correctly classify it as flourite then they can.

Similarly with Bath Stone. Now I don't know, but perhaps the people of the south west have sufficient pride in their mining history and would prefer their quarries to carry the name Bath Stone (where relevant, i.e. if the mine was known by that rather than limestone) rather than limestone. Wikipedia btw defines Bath Stone is an Oolitic limestone comprising granular fragments of calcium carbonate.

I'm just making the product names available to people, up to individuals (with better knowledge than me) to use them as they see fit.

I'd certainly rather keep a good mineral/product list than have endless mines/quarries classified as 'other'.

Toodlepip!

my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by
Barney
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18 years ago
Its not the scientific or geology side of things we are after, simply the material/substance/rock that is included in the name of the mine. Regardless of what Blue John is made of, the mine is called 'Blue John Mine'
Captain Scarlet
18 years ago
"johnnym" wrote:

Bath Stone...? You may just as well add "roofing slate", or "paving sandstone"... Bath stone is just limestone. And Blue John is fluorite. With nice colours. Perhaps we should have a mineral called "nice looking"? By calling the them (the mines near Castleton) fluorite mines, you'd be sensibly classifying them with all the other fluorite mines in the northern Pennines, and the "mineral type" would actually mean something. You're all hopeless, words fail me etc. etc. chiz chiz moan drone (contd pp94)...

:smartass:



Yep, point accepted 🙂

But perhaps we can keep "bath stone" in the list simply to differentiate it from limestone quarries ? (Where, I think most of the product is used for making concrete) Is there un umbrella term to describe those types of product ? (Bath, Cotswold, Wiltshire stone..)
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JohnnearCfon
18 years ago
"johnnym" wrote:

Bath Stone...? You may just as well add "roofing slate", or "paving sandstone"... Bath stone is just limestone. And Blue John is fluorite. With nice colours. Perhaps we should have a mineral called "nice looking"? By calling the them (the mines near Castleton) fluorite mines, you'd be sensibly classifying them with all the other fluorite mines in the northern Pennines, and the "mineral type" would actually mean something. You're all hopeless, words fail me etc. etc. chiz chiz moan drone (contd pp94)...

:smartass:



Whilst you do have a valid point of view, I don't think the insults at the end were necessary.

Your parallel idea "roofing slate" doesn't follow, the miners were mining slate, what happened to it subsequently is a different matter. In the case of Blue John (and presumably Bath Stone) the miners WERE mining Blue John, that it was Fluorite was irrelevant to them!
Captain Scarlet
18 years ago
"JohnnearCfon" wrote:


Whilst you do have a valid point of view, I don't think the insults at the end were necessary.



Ahhh... I think his tongue was placed firmly in cheek. 😉

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sparty_lea
18 years ago
Johnnym's post seems to have disappeared but From what Nimrod quotes I have to agree with him.

Bluejohn is just fluorite, so what if the local name for it is Bluejohn.
Shap pink quarry produced a highly decorative and distinctive granite which is widely refered to just as 'Shap pink' but its still a granite.
'Frosterley marble' is just a fossiliferous limestone.
Ashford black marble is just bituminous limestone
There is a metamorphosed sandstone quarry in Ingleton and folks in the quarry industry refer to it as 'Granite' but that doesn't make it one.

If you try to include all these local variations then the database will become very confusing.

Just my twopenorth 🙂

edit: :oops:
Post still there I just missed it first time
There are 10 types of people in the world.

Those that understand binary and those that do not!
JohnnearCfon
18 years ago
"Nimrod" wrote:


Ahhh... I think his tongue was placed firmly in cheek. 😉



Apologies in that case, I read it through several times and didn't seem so. 🙂
Captain Scarlet
18 years ago
I think it is my lack of knowlege on this that is at the root of this debate. Earlier today when I asked for "Bath Stone" to be added as a product, I did not know it was a Limestone. Actually on my trip to Wiltshire last weekend, I was informed that Bath Stone was actually a Sandstone !

When I learned earlier today that it was in fact a Limestone, I still felt that it was correct to distinguish it from the Limestone quarried to manufacture concrete, as I alluded to in an earlier post. It is not simply a question of regional variation in the naming of a quarried product, but totally different end use of that product.

Maybe when we have the benefit of a regional editor for that area of the country, things may be clarified. I certainly look forward to that because my knowlege of this area and its mines is certainly very limited indeed.

In the meantime please accept my apologies for the confusion I seemed to have created.
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simonrl
  • simonrl
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18 years ago
Don't worry about it at all Nimrod. If it's decided that it should come out of the list then it's not a problem. If it's decided that it should stay in the list as the product from certain quarries was correctly referred to as bath stone specifically and rather than limestone then it ought to stay.

One for the Wiltshire contingent 🙂
my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by
sparty_lea
18 years ago
"Nimrod" wrote:



When I learned earlier today that it was in fact a Limestone, I still felt that it was correct to distinguish it from the Limestone quarried to manufacture concrete, as I alluded to in an earlier post. It is not simply a question of regional variation in the naming of a quarried product, but totally different end use of that product.



I see what you're getting at and I agree these specific names are often well known so it would be good to include them, but perhaps the 'Bath Stone' or 'Bluejohn' could go in the also-known-as field, at least then they would show up in a search.

The problem about separating things out by purpose, in my view, is that Building stone can be granite or sandstone as well as limestone.
You could set up a category for building stone but then, as johnnym says, why not roofing slate? Limestone can be used in a number of different ways.

For its chemical properties eg calcined for steelmaking, or for agricultural lime or for cement;
As aggregate for roadstone or concrete;
As building stone;
As ornamental stone.

Do they all get a category?
To complicate matters further, limestone from the same quarry may end up being used for several of these different end uses.


There are 10 types of people in the world.

Those that understand binary and those that do not!
JohnnearCfon
18 years ago
"sparty_lea" wrote:



To complicate matters further, limestone from the same quarry may end up being used for several of these different end uses.



As indeed does slate! If you listed all slate's uses seperately it would fill the entire database! Everything from roofing slate, slabs for flooring, window sills, right through to lady's makeup!
Barney
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18 years ago
Oh no, i have just found a marble mine. I don't think its the glass ball type though. 😮
Its called 'Ashford marble mine'
simonrl
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18 years ago
"Barney" wrote:

Oh no, i have just found a marble mine. I don't think its the glass ball type though. 😮
Its called 'Ashford marble mine'



Marbles hey? Vanoord is holding out for the day he finds a soap mine 🙂
my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by
Barney
  • Barney
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18 years ago
Simon, any chance of adding 'Bitumin' please? (i think thats how its spelt)

I have one in Shropshire.

Cheeeeers!
simonrl
  • simonrl
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18 years ago
Is it ok if I add that tomorrow morning Barney? Going to have to disappear out in a moment 🙂
my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by
LeeW
  • LeeW
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18 years ago
"Barney" wrote:

Oh no, i have just found a marble mine. I don't think its the glass ball type though. 😮
Its called 'Ashford marble mine'



Ashford Black Marble (a number of small mines in area) is not a marble, but a limestone which makes a nice polished stone use for ornamental purposes etc
I went in a mine once.... it was dark and scary..... full of weirdos


When do I get my soapbox, I need to rant on about some b***cks
LeeW
  • LeeW
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18 years ago
Blue John is just blue fluorspar and is unique to that mine in Castleton,

Although I haven't seen Ganister or Calcite on the list
I went in a mine once.... it was dark and scary..... full of weirdos


When do I get my soapbox, I need to rant on about some b***cks
Barney
  • Barney
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18 years ago
"simonrl" wrote:

Is it ok if I add that tomorrow morning Barney? Going to have to disappear out in a moment :)


No problem, when your ready!
Captain Scarlet
18 years ago
Can we have "Cobalt" and "Umber" please.. :smartass:
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simonrl
  • simonrl
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18 years ago
"Nimrod" wrote:

Can we have "Cobalt" and "Umber" please.. :smartass:



No problem, will do it this evening.

Sorry Barney, not added Bitumen, got distracted yesterday! Is that bituminous coal?

Perhaps it would be a good idea to keep this thread going today to see if there are any more mineral/product suggestions, or any more input. They I can do them all in one go tonight (have another new feature to add as well).
my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by

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