Following the death of my Nikon Coolpix 8400...

..it may be time for me to consider acquiring something else!


My requirements would be a comparatively wide angle (the 8400 is 26mm equivalent iirc) and a long exposure with preferable a bulb setting.

As far as the bulb setting is concerned, this would preferably be a press-to-open / press-to-shut and not a press-and-hold-to-keep-open - although I do actually quite like the Nikon remote shutter release on a cable.


Having used a Nikon D80 above ground for a couple of years, I do like the full functionality of an SLR but I don't want to carry something that bulky around underground.

Which is where the idea of a "Four Thirds" 'mini-SLR' comes in... these appear to be a smaller version of an SLR, without the mirrors - thus making the whole camera a lot smaller.

I'm attracted by a lens that isn't going to go in and out whenever the camera is switched on and off, thus reducing the odds of grinding dirt in the mechanism (this being what finished off my 8400). Similarly, if anything does go wrong with the lens, it can at least be changed.


The earlier Four Thirds cameras include:

Panasonic Lumix G1 http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicdmcg1/  (which also has the advantage of a flip-and-turn LCD screen.)

Olympus E-420 http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse420/ 

Olympus E-520 http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse520/ 

There are then the "third generation" cameras, a bit smaller which use the a similar lens system. These may be described as "Micro Four Thirds" cameras, I'm still trying to figure out the correct terminology!

Panasonic Lumix GF1 - http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/PanasonicGF1/  (Bulb up to 4 minutes)

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/olympusepl1/  

Olympus E-P2 - http://www.dpreview.com/news/0911/09110501olympusep2.asp 


In general, the 'Four Thirds' cameras seem to be readily available with a 14-42mm lens, which is the equivalent of 28mm or thereabouts - probably sufficient for underground use.

The question - I guess - is whether these are worth the extra investment over a more standard compact / bridge camera; and whether they'll deliver better results?

Any thoughts?!

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Vanoord, you may wish to have a look at :-
www.wrotniak.net On the home page, click on Photo Tidbits and then on Olympus E System.
The only (I think) Olympus camera that is "weather sealed" is the E3 and the only similar lenses are the Pro and Top Pro series.

The D80 is an excellent camera and people regularly get superb results underground with them. Whilst the Micro Four Thirds sound tempting they certainly aren't compact.

Here are the dimensions for the D80 and the Olympus EP-2:

5.2 x 4.1 x 3.0
4.5 x 2.8 x 1.7

that's without lenses. So you're shaving 1.3 inches each off the height and depth. And .7 inch off the width. OK, you'll save a bit more than half a pound on the weight.

I'd guess the image quality would be broadly similar.

The only way to lose the bulk is to go for a true compact. And then the quality is compromised, that's just a simple matter of sensor size and physics. But easy to put in a pocket in a waterproof case.

I've been using a Pentax G1 (micro 4/3) for a bit. Seems quite robust, I'd be a bit concerned about grit getting in the lens mechanism, the flip-out-turn-round screen is brilliant!
My pics in this Darkplaces album were taken with it
http://www.darkplaces.co.uk/phpBB2/album_cat.php?cat_id=847 

For dirtier / wetter places, I've just got a Panasonic FT2 now, it's a ruggedised compact, waterproof to 10 meters. I've yet to get underground with it though.

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The 4/3rds have quite a small sensor for the bulk.
I just got a canon D10 for underground use. The CDHK team are working on getting full manual and its water, shock and everything else proof.
For full photo drips Ill be taking the D90

I've been using a Pentax G1 (micro 4/3) for a bit. Seems quite robust, I'd be a bit concerned about grit getting in the lens mechanism, the flip-out-turn-round screen is brilliant!
My pics in this Darkplaces album were taken with it
http://www.darkplaces.co.uk/phpBB2/album_cat.php?cat_id=847 

Panasonic G1, surely?!

Seems to have a bulb feature for the shutter? If so, how does it work? (ie press-and-hold or press-to-open / press-to-close)?

ta!

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Manual focusing is a pain with a compact, especially if it's got a small screen like mine.

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The D80 is an excellent camera and people regularly get superb results underground with them. Whilst the Micro Four Thirds sound tempting they certainly aren't compact.

Here are the dimensions for the D80 and the Olympus EP-2:

5.2 x 4.1 x 3.0
4.5 x 2.8 x 1.7

that's without lenses. So you're shaving 1.3 inches each off the height and depth. And .7 inch off the width. OK, you'll save a bit more than half a pound on the weight.

Interesting: I think I'll be compiling a table before too long.

Dimensions of the Panasonic G1, incidentally:

124 mm x 84 mm x 45 mm
5" x 3.3" x 1.8"

The Olympus EP-2 looks a nice bit of kit, but it's expensive!

Dimensions of the Panasonic GF1 fopr comparison:

119 mm x 71 mm x 36.3 mm
4.7" x 2.8" x 1.4"

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Do SLR type cameras actually offer any advantages underground over a good compact? Looking through photos on here and Flickr I really can't see that they do.

Yes, I meant Panasonic - my spellchecker thought otherwise and I didn't notice!
Long exposure, you just tell it how long you want and press the button once. If you're worried about shaking it on the tripod just use the self timer (2 or 10 secs), which also gives you time to leg it to your chosen lighting position if it's close enough and you don't have a light bitch with you 🙂

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It sound like your already a Nikon man but I'll give it a go.

Pentax FTW! You've already seen my thread so I'll post a reminder.
http://www.aditnow.co.uk/community/viewtopic.aspx?p=62386#msg62386 

Over at currys or pcworld they are doing the Olympus PEN at £369! Thats not a bad price including 14-42mm lens.
I use 4/3 Olympus DSLR and are very pleased with the results both above and below ground and its the same size sensor as the PEN, just wish I had enough spare cash to get the PEN.
would be able to use my flash on it as well! :smartass:

Do SLR type cameras actually offer any advantages underground over a good compact? Looking through photos on here and Flickr I really can't see that they do.

I've often wondered this.

I think it comes down to the camera/lens combo & the photographer 😉 The one thing I will say is the super wide angle lenses 10-20 look the best IMO.

I've seen some excellent results lately from both Canon 40D & Nikon D60, so much so that I am considering a DSLR myself at the moment to use along side my Lumix LX3.

Using the two cameras side by side also for the same shots should prove an interesting experiment..

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Tried the Lumix FT2 and I'm happy with the results http://www.flickr.com/photos/souterain/sets/72157624353190494/ . Seems OK for a waterproof compact, certainly don't notice it in my breast pocket while crawling. The G1 is now relegated to above-ground use (and possibly dry stone mines).

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surely the canon G11 should be on that list? http://www.jessops.com/online.store/products/76503/show.html .

* High-sensitivity 10.0 MP CCD
* 28mm wide-angle lens with optical IS
* 2.8-inch vari-angle LCD
* Dual Anti-Noise System with DIGIC 4
* Full Manual control & RAW

looks a very good camera and you can get a tube fitting that will protect the lens mechanism from grit with skylight filter on the end.
i've seen G9 in action set up like this and worked a treat and the G11 has the same capability. http://www.kleptography.com/rf/rf_grip_lensmate.jpg 

thinking of getting one i must say
::)

I have a D10.Its ok so far and now has a working cdhk so almost full manual.
Waterproof and chock proof.
Then the slr for better pics

Hmmm, I'm completely stuck for underground photography now, all my 8400s have packed up, one per trip of late. And they're getting rattlier with successive rebuilds!

The Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 is looking the best of that batch to me, but the lack of ISO 50 and no flip out screen stop it being perfect IMO.

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Panasonic Lumix G2?

That has a flip screen, but on the downside it's also a touchscreen 😮

One thing that has entered my concerns is that the standard 14-45 lens (or whatever it is) is a bit on the bulky side.

The solution would be the fixed 17mm 'pancake' lens which is pretty small (around 1") - that gives an equivalent of 34mm which is not bad, but not great.

Ho hum, more thought required.

It's a difficult one, for sure. I'm almost tempted by a compact, but the ability to output as RAW is a must-have.

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I don't like the look of the G1 and G2 for underground. As rikj points out they're not much smaller than a DLSR and I have one of those for underground use (can't get to grips with it though!).

They also have a lot of buttons and holes for dirt to get in as far as I can see.

The DMC-GF1 looks to be a reasonable all rounder perhaps?

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It does indeed.

The Lumix LX-3 (as used by Brakeman) looks interesting, too http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicdmclx3/  with a 24mm equivalent lens - and has the advantage of saving out as RAW.

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