With SRT, it doesn't matter what you use, as long as you're familiar with it and competent.

I tend to go minimalist. The more bits, the more chance of a terminal f**k-up.

I'll sacrifice a bit of efficiency for simplicity.

Reference; making replacement bars for rack descenders, don't use straight aluminium (sideways pressure is critical), use Duralloy, I am sure other folk on here will know the best grade, drilling the stuff is not difficult but getting the holes in the right place is, Jig up properly. This stuff comes in 16ft lengths, I am sure there is a market for someone to set up a simple production system.

I bought the last CS rack bars that Phil Brown had in stock. They're wearing out now so I need to make replacements. Can anyone provide info on what grade of alloy is required?

It seems that Caving Supplies were from the era of proper experimental caving, before the rot set in. I gather there were a lot more smaller companies doing various home-spun things.

It's a shame that people have largely lost the sense of "can" reading "On Rope" there is a fair section on how to sew your own webbing together. It really is a case of "Since you've made yourself a chest roller, you're going to require an optimised harness and since one isn't available off the shelf, here's some information about the different sorts of webbing available and how to stitch it".

I have got beyond the "making stuff in the shed" phase, particularly since the pikies nicked the old Myford lathe I had in my folks garage. I bet they weighed it in as well.

The more I think about it, the more I am coming around to the fact that Pezl ascenders are overly hard on your rope and the quality isn't actually that good.

Some of the Singing Rock stuff looks to be good quality and reminds me of the 90's petzl stuff I like so much.

It seems that the take from the modern alpine caving school of thinking is that you use a "hybrid" ropewalker, where you use a foot ascender and a knee ascender as well as a croll and use your hands to steady yourself. Anything more is considered overkill and hugely fiddly and complicated. I'm aware chest rollers were pretty rudimentary and fiddly things, but like the rest of gear, they've come on a long way. It was actually the PMI chest roller which made me look at the rest of their gear. I've come to a conclusion that the biggest obstacle to ascending efficiently is what goes on above your belly button. I've tried fine tuning it and the best I can do is by complimetarily walking up the rope with my hands. I think it should be an easy task to stroll up a 100m shaft hardly using any energy.

I may come across as a bit glib, but I'm quite keen on developing a highly efficient and respectable way of doing big shafts. I just happen to think that frogging isn't it. :)

Another danger I found was that it is quite possible to hook your knee and foot ascenders on and start crawling up the rope......only to forget your chest ascender. I avoided hanging upside-down about 10m up quite recently. A roller makes a lot more sense. I've tried a bungee and carabiner and that was rubbish. It's got to be a roller, I think.

The Caving Supplies rack has more chubby bars than the petzl and does a 4 bar descent better. I am reluctant to take a bar out on the petzl as the increase seems a little bit more marked (for me as a huge gorilla). I think a 6 bar like the original caving supplies job is better for the bigger stuff.

Having said, my bars are quite worn.

I on the other hand have not got past the making stuff in my shed phase.

Here is my take on the chest roller idea:

🔗Personal-Album-3574-Image-87061[linkphoto]Personal-Album-3574-Image-87061[/linkphoto][/link]

🔗Personal-Album-3574-Image-87060[linkphoto]Personal-Album-3574-Image-87060[/linkphoto][/link]

🔗Personal-Album-3574-Image-87059[linkphoto]Personal-Album-3574-Image-87059[/linkphoto][/link]

:stupid:

Whoops, I had hoped that I would be able to pull the pictures up in the forum post (rather than links). Could someone less technically inept than me tweak things - cheers.

:stupid:

Whoops, I had hoped that I would be able to pull the pictures up in the forum post (rather than links). Could someone less technically inept than me tweak things - cheers.

Done now :)

To display an image in a forum post copy and paste the line of codey stuff under each image under the heading 'display in a forum message' :flowers:

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Cheers Simon, "codey stuff" I can just about understand. :flowers:

That looks suspiciously like what used to be known as a 'buggery box'... 😉

It looks nice. But what is it? Lol!

It looks nice. But what is it? Lol!

A chest or "roller" box, designed to keep you upright when rope walking with knee and ankle jammers.
With the main rope attachments being on the legs some system is needed to keep one upright on the rope so this is attached to the chest and the main rope is passed through to lift the centre of gravity.
The second pulley is to pass a rope through to connect a hand jammer to a sit harness for a further line of defense.
I was experimenting with this system in the mid eighties and would be interested to know if anyone has had much success with it?. (I was incapacitated late 80's., not related 😞 )
Looking at fairly recent video's it appears that "monkey on a rope" (frogging) is still popular (after 35years!)

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It looks nice. But what is it? Lol!

A chest or "roller" box, designed to keep you upright when rope walking with knee and ankle jammers.
With the main rope attachments being on the legs some system is needed to keep one upright on the rope so this is attached to the chest and the main rope is passed through to lift the centre of gravity.
The second pulley is to pass a rope through to connect a hand jammer to a sit harness for a further line of defense.
I was experimenting with this system in the mid eighties and would be interested to know if anyone has had much success with it?. (I was incapacitated late 80's., not related 😞 )
Looking at fairly recent video's it appears that "monkey on a rope" (frogging) is still popular (after 35years!)

Thanks for that! I shall have a mooch and see what I can read up on, as it sounds interesting.

Although I can't imagine that is the most comfotable thing to wear in the world!

Reference; making replacement bars for rack descenders, don't use straight aluminium (sideways pressure is critical), use Duralloy, I am sure other folk on here will know the best grade, drilling the stuff is not difficult but getting the holes in the right place is, Jig up properly. This stuff comes in 16ft lengths, I am sure there is a market for someone to set up a simple production system.

Duralumin (or Dural or several other contractions ) is a trade name for now obsolete grade of aluminium (a 4% copper alloy). Nearest around these days is probably 2014A though it is a bit susceptible to corrosion.
You can probably buy smaller quantities from places like Metal Supermarket but be careful not to just go for aluminium as some grades (particularly such as can be found at diy shops) are very soft and would last no time at all in a rack with a dirty rope.

Getting the bars properly machined is definitely what to do, too much risk if you get it wrong...
I can do the drilling for fixed bars but not currently the milling for the moving ones though that will be sorted at some point...

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Reference; making replacement bars for rack descenders, don't use straight aluminium (sideways pressure is critical), use Duralloy, I am sure other folk on here will know the best grade, drilling the stuff is not difficult but getting the holes in the right place is, Jig up properly. This stuff comes in 16ft lengths, I am sure there is a market for someone to set up a simple production system.

I bought the last CS rack bars that Phil Brown had in stock. They're wearing out now so I need to make replacements. Can anyone provide info on what grade of alloy is required?

with a little wiggling petzl ones will fit.

Hmm, when abbing you depend upon your descender, I am not sure that I would trust "a little wiggling".

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It looks nice. But what is it? Lol!

A chest or "roller" box, designed to keep you upright when rope walking with knee and ankle jammers.
With the main rope attachments being on the legs some system is needed to keep one upright on the rope so this is attached to the chest and the main rope is passed through to lift the centre of gravity.
The second pulley is to pass a rope through to connect a hand jammer to a sit harness for a further line of defense.
I was experimenting with this system in the mid eighties and would be interested to know if anyone has had much success with it?. (I was incapacitated late 80's., not related 😞 )
Looking at fairly recent video's it appears that "monkey on a rope" (frogging) is still popular (after 35years!)

Thanks for that! I shall have a mooch and see what I can read up on, as it sounds interesting.

Although I can't imagine that is the most comfotable thing to wear in the world!

I am currently toying with ropewalking, mainly due to a growing dissatisfaction with the frog system.

I must admit that I am not wholly convinced by the idea of a chest roller - however I thought that rather than writing them off out of hand I should at least give the things a fair trial. I did not fancy importing a PMI roller box (beautiful though they are) from the States at great expense so I built my own.

The twin roller concept is ripped off from the "Bluewater box", which was the first commercially produced chest box.

My intention is only to use a single roller for the main rope, the second roller being fairly redundant. The purpose of the second roller is to run a line from a hand jammer though it; this system is known as the Mitchell which does not appeal (although I'll give it a go).

I think that I will probably end up using a ropewalking system with a shoulder mounted croll rather than a chest mounted roller box.

Over the next few weeks I am hoping to have a play with various and sundry ropewalking systems. If I don't kill myself in the process I'll post my findings.

It looks nice. But what is it? Lol!

A chest or "roller" box, designed to keep you upright when rope walking with knee and ankle jammers.
With the main rope attachments being on the legs some system is needed to keep one upright on the rope so this is attached to the chest and the main rope is passed through to lift the centre of gravity.
The second pulley is to pass a rope through to connect a hand jammer to a sit harness for a further line of defense.
I was experimenting with this system in the mid eighties and would be interested to know if anyone has had much success with it?. (I was incapacitated late 80's., not related 😞 )
Looking at fairly recent video's it appears that "monkey on a rope" (frogging) is still popular (after 35years!)

Thanks for that! I shall have a mooch and see what I can read up on, as it sounds interesting.

Although I can't imagine that is the most comfotable thing to wear in the world!

I am currently toying with ropewalking, mainly due to a growing dissatisfaction with the frog system.

I must admit that I am not wholly convinced by the idea of a chest roller - however I thought that rather than writing them off out of hand I should at least give the things a fair trial. I did not fancy importing a PMI roller box (beautiful though they are) from the States at great expense so I built my own.

The twin roller concept is ripped off from the "Bluewater box", which was the first commercially produced chest box.

My intention is only to use a single roller for the main rope, the second roller being fairly redundant. The purpose of the second roller is to run a line from a hand jammer though it; this system is known as the Mitchell which does not appeal (although I'll give it a go).

I think that I will probably end up using a ropewalking system with a shoulder mounted croll rather than a chest mounted roller box.

Over the next few weeks I am hoping to have a play with various and sundry ropewalking systems. If I don't kill myself in the process I'll post my findings.

It seems like a strange concept but none the less if it is better then ideal! I would be interested in seeing this in action some time rick. We are having some srt practice this weekend and you are more than welcome to come along.

It is certainly an interesting concept that's for sure....

How high up would you wear it and how close does it hold you to the rope? Have a fairly ludicrous image in my head of a caver with rope burns up his chin which presumably doesn't happen...

Also, how do you get on and off the rope whilst wearing it?

How high up would you wear it and how close does it hold you to the rope? Have a fairly ludicrous image in my head of a caver with rope burns up his chin which presumably doesn't happen...

Also, how do you get on and off the rope whilst wearing it?

I am not entirely sure how "the device" will work having never used the thing in anger. Thus far all I have done is played with it in the living room.

I may well end up with a Kirk Douglas cleft on my chin.

The back plate is designed to be used with a standard fig of 8 strap. Using this rig the box sits up on my sternum. My intention is that the box should sit as high as possible to hold me as vertical as possible on the rope (this is my major issue with frog).

As to getting the box off of the rope - slacken the wing nuts lift the box away from the back plate and slide the rope out. Sounds simple but I am not too sure how it will work with a loaded rope.

I am more than a little bit sceptical as to how the box will perform.

It looks nice. But what is it? Lol!

A chest or "roller" box, designed to keep you upright when rope walking with knee and ankle jammers.
With the main rope attachments being on the legs some system is needed to keep one upright on the rope so this is attached to the chest and the main rope is passed through to lift the centre of gravity.
The second pulley is to pass a rope through to connect a hand jammer to a sit harness for a further line of defense.
I was experimenting with this system in the mid eighties and would be interested to know if anyone has had much success with it?. (I was incapacitated late 80's., not related 😞 )
Looking at fairly recent video's it appears that "monkey on a rope" (frogging) is still popular (after 35years!)

Thanks for that! I shall have a mooch and see what I can read up on, as it sounds interesting.

Although I can't imagine that is the most comfotable thing to wear in the world!

I am currently toying with ropewalking, mainly due to a growing dissatisfaction with the frog system.

I must admit that I am not wholly convinced by the idea of a chest roller - however I thought that rather than writing them off out of hand I should at least give the things a fair trial. I did not fancy importing a PMI roller box (beautiful though they are) from the States at great expense so I built my own.

The twin roller concept is ripped off from the "Bluewater box", which was the first commercially produced chest box.

My intention is only to use a single roller for the main rope, the second roller being fairly redundant. The purpose of the second roller is to run a line from a hand jammer though it; this system is known as the Mitchell which does not appeal (although I'll give it a go).

I think that I will probably end up using a ropewalking system with a shoulder mounted croll rather than a chest mounted roller box.

Over the next few weeks I am hoping to have a play with various and sundry ropewalking systems. If I don't kill myself in the process I'll post my findings.

It seems like a strange concept but none the less if it is better then ideal! I would be interested in seeing this in action some time rick. We are having some srt practice this weekend and you are more than welcome to come along.

It is certainly an interesting concept that's for sure....

There are more ways of travelling up a rope than frog. Check out:

Padgetts "On rope".
Back issues of "Nylon Highway" (available online).
Gary Storrick's website "Vertical Devices".

Thanks for the invite, unfortunately tied up this weekend (work and domestic commitments).

Managed to get out and have a play tonight. I rigged a rope from an oak which gave me a twenty five foot hang.

I trialled two ropewalking systems. Both systems used a Pantin on the left foot and a floating Petzl Basic at knee height on a bungee.

The first system I tried used a shoulder mounted Croll. The Croll was linked to my harness maillon by a 30cm sling and to the rear of the harness by an adjustable strap. The shoulder mounted Croll was not a great success: The lashed up harness didn't hold me close enough to the rope. This might be solved by a harness redesign. However the real deal breaker was the amount of extra friction the Croll put into the system.

The second system used the chest mounted roller box on a 25mm webbing sling. I ran an additional jammer above the box as a security back up. The roller box performed well albeit being let down by the harness which didn't hold me close enough to the rope.

Whilst the shoulder mounted Croll is probably a dead end I think there is some mileage in the roller box option albeit the harness will need a radical rethink.