JohnnearCfon
17 years ago
"LAP" wrote:


Yes well I wasn't actually being serious, but I still like the idea of bilingual signs in Cumbric (which unfortunatly no-one is sure about) ::) :lol:


anyway - back to Whitehaven...



What percentage of the Cumbrian population can speak or understand Cumbric? Come to that what percentage actually is even aware of it's existence?
LAP
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17 years ago
I think quite a few are aware of its existance, but no-one can actually say they can definatly speak it; as although reconstructions have/are taking place they are yet largely unknown to everyone but the reconstructer and a few other people who take an interest. If you're a welsh speaker then you would be able to understand it if spoken slowly I think.
Kein geneis kanaf - Cain gnais canaf
Byt vndyd mwyhaf - byth onddyth moyav
Lliaws a bwyllaf - Líows o boylav
Ac a bryderaf - ac o boryddarav
Kyfarchaf y veird byt - covarcav yr vairth
Pryt nam dyweid - poryth na'm dowaith
Py gynheil y byt - Pa gonail y byth
Na syrch yn eissywyt - na soroc yn eishoyth
Neur byt bei syrchei - nour byth bai sorochai

Mr.C
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17 years ago
"hymac580c" wrote:

Lap said-
Should Cumbria have independance from the rest of England?

No not a very good economic idea, unless vast oil reserves are found under Conniston lake. And gold is found in large quantities at Honiston slate mine. Therefore I think you will have to continue to be united with the rest of the UK and be governed by London. 🙂


Better idea would be if England had independance from London!
We inhabit an island made of coal, surrounded by a sea full of fish. How can we go wrong.......
JohnnearCfon
17 years ago
"Mr.C" wrote:

"hymac580c" wrote:

Lap said-
Should Cumbria have independance from the rest of England?

No not a very good economic idea, unless vast oil reserves are found under Conniston lake. And gold is found in large quantities at Honiston slate mine. Therefore I think you will have to continue to be united with the rest of the UK and be governed by London. 🙂


Better idea would be if England had independance from London!



I think a lot of people in North Wales think the same about Cardiff!
LAP
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17 years ago
And that Cornwall should have independance from England; I can sort of understand this one but it is a bit far fetched, maybe if the 300 cornish speakers were to have more success at teaching it to the rest of the county!


Kein geneis kanaf - Cain gnais canaf
Byt vndyd mwyhaf - byth onddyth moyav
Lliaws a bwyllaf - Líows o boylav
Ac a bryderaf - ac o boryddarav
Kyfarchaf y veird byt - covarcav yr vairth
Pryt nam dyweid - poryth na'm dowaith
Py gynheil y byt - Pa gonail y byth
Na syrch yn eissywyt - na soroc yn eishoyth
Neur byt bei syrchei - nour byth bai sorochai

Buckhill
17 years ago
Just a couple of points, Dochol and Jagman - as I said before none of the Camerton drifts connected with BUCKHILL (not Birkhill as you refer to it). Buckhill was closed and sealed before the site was taken over by the RNAD. Buckhill shaft was 600 ft deep but the workings of River Drift (closest to Buckhill) were in the higher seams within a couple of hundred ft of the surface. The Camerton drifts and Buckhill takes are separated by faults and no drivage was made through them.

LAP - the tub wheels wouldn't be from Saltom, they'll have been thrown over the edge from Haig like all the other scrap littering the shore around here. The shaft at Saltom was plugged (top 30 ft) and capped about 1981 after concerns that the sea could breach the walls and flood Haig. Prior to that the shaft had only a vented 4 inch cap and water (fresh)stood at the Main Band level, draining into Haig.

On the question of Cumberland's independence - read your history books. "Cumbria" (the ancient one not the recent resurrection) was a sub-kingdom of Strathclyde exchanged for the "borders" (Roxburgh, Selkirk, Berwick shires etc) which had been part of Northumbria. The name comes from the "cumbri", or "northern Welsh" tribe who were separated from their fellow Celts by the invasion of the English into what is now Lancashire. Too small for true independence but with the benefits of devolution enjoyed in the modern "Strathclyde" maybe a shift back there wouldn't be a bad thing (but bet it wouldn't go down too well if the English border was 10 miles outside Edinburgh again).
jagman
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17 years ago
"Buckhill" wrote:

Just a couple of points, Dochol and Jagman - as I said before none of the Camerton drifts connected with BUCKHILL (not Birkhill as you refer to it). Buckhill was closed and sealed before the site was taken over by the RNAD. Buckhill shaft was 600 ft deep but the workings of River Drift (closest to Buckhill) were in the higher seams within a couple of hundred ft of the surface. The Camerton drifts and Buckhill takes are separated by faults and no drivage was made through them.



Ahh sorry Buckhill. I'm famous for not remembering the name of anything or anyone 😉
On the enviromental maps for the RNAD there is an area of shallow workings marked at the Western end, a little North of the railway gate, have you any idea to which mine these relate?
hymac580c
17 years ago
Do you think it might be possible as the mine is sealed with no ventilation for a biuld up of gasses to ignite somehow and create an explotion?

By the way myself being a Northen Welsh 'hillybilly' I am able to follow some of the Cumbric 'Hen Ogledd' language. To quite honest i did not even know of it's existance. But very interesting nevertheless. I will now have a bit of a read on the subject. 😉
Bellach dim ond swn y gwynt yn chwibian, lle bu gynt yr engan ar cynion yn tincian.
LAP
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17 years ago

On the question of Cumberland's independence - read your history books. "Cumbria" (the ancient one not the recent resurrection) was a sub-kingdom of Strathclyde exchanged for the "borders" (Roxburgh, Selkirk, Berwick shires etc) which had been part of Northumbria. The name comes from the "cumbri", or "northern Welsh" tribe who were separated from their fellow Celts by the invasion of the English into what is now Lancashire. Too small for true independence but with the benefits of devolution enjoyed in the modern "Strathclyde" maybe a shift back there wouldn't be a bad thing (but bet it wouldn't go down too well if the English border was 10 miles outside Edinburgh again).



Exactly! I think the area was known by the Welsh as Rheged and did indeed have it's own king; the came later changed to probably "Cwmbru" or maybe "Kwmbru"??
Kein geneis kanaf - Cain gnais canaf
Byt vndyd mwyhaf - byth onddyth moyav
Lliaws a bwyllaf - Líows o boylav
Ac a bryderaf - ac o boryddarav
Kyfarchaf y veird byt - covarcav yr vairth
Pryt nam dyweid - poryth na'm dowaith
Py gynheil y byt - Pa gonail y byth
Na syrch yn eissywyt - na soroc yn eishoyth
Neur byt bei syrchei - nour byth bai sorochai

Buckhill
17 years ago
Not sure of the exact area you mean Jagman but the Seaton Moor pit (No 1) worked up to outcrop in that area. There are a number of ancient workings pre-dating Seaton Moor in the outcrops of various seams, most of the names forgotten.

Hymac, the oxygen content quoted by Jagman is too low to support combustion and without knowing the cause of the deficiency (ie is it firedamp build-up or blackdamp) the possibility of explosion is difficult to determine. If it is firedamp there is the possibility of an explosive mixture being formed at the interface between the mine atmosphere and fresh air where the mix could be "just right" (5-14% methane in fresh air equivalent). The deficiency is, however, more likely to be due to blackdamp caused by the slow oxidation of coal and rotting of timber. The exploration of such places should never be encouraged - it was hazardous enough entering disused parts of working mines (with some ventilation still present) never mind places long closed. The re-opening of any abandoned coal mine is a serious undertaking, carefully planned and supervised by experienced persons. Even that can go pear-shaped - a local example was the attempt to re-open Haig's "Development" district in 1928 - 13 men, including the colliery manager and mines inspectors, remain down there to this day along with the man they went looking for!
jagman
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17 years ago
A 4 Gas analyser/meter was used.
10.4% Oxygen, zero readings for explosive gases. Just litteraly very low oxygen levels.

Will sort a grid ref for the area of shallow workings
Buckhill
17 years ago
Obviously blackdamp then - it is the commonest cause of low oxygen levels and being denser than air fills the low spots. Firedamp usually "tails off" following closure as the emission from working faces rapidly declines and being less dense than air it tends to flow upwards and out of the shafts/drifts.
hymac580c
17 years ago
You have convinced me and I am sure most others that exploring old coal mines is a no go area. When you think of the hundereds of mines that have closed and have been sealed all over the country fermenting toxic and flamable gasses.

Bellach dim ond swn y gwynt yn chwibian, lle bu gynt yr engan ar cynion yn tincian.
jagman
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17 years ago
"hymac580c" wrote:

You have convinced me and I am sure most others that exploring old coal mines is a no go area. When you think of the hundereds of mines that have closed and have been sealed all over the country fermenting toxic and flamable gasses.



I've been in a few and without exception they are deathtraps.
All of them have serious air quality problems, in addition most of the ones still accesable are small drifts that are always very low roofed and dropping to bits.
The amount of gear necessary to do them is prohibitive, if you think SRT gear is a pain to hawk about a mine it doesn't even come close to the agravation of getting through a fall with BA kit on (mines rescue teams of old really demand respect for the gear and conditions they went underground with). In addition you need gas monitoring gear, no a canary won't really do the trick, as well as intrinsically safe lighting etc.
They are mighty interesting though 😉 the downside is that the risks are very high
Dweeb
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17 years ago
Yes, collieries are mighty interesting places, smething I really want to see more of.

Moving back to the headgear, does anyone have a flash erath of the place?

Ta!
Vanoord
17 years ago
"Dweeb" wrote:

Yes, collieries are mighty interesting places, smething I really want to see more of.

Moving back to the headgear, does anyone have a flash erath of the place?

Ta!



Hehe - this website has a rather useful function built in :)

Have a look at the mine's entry in the database: http://www.aditnow.co.uk/mines/Haig-Pit-Coal-Mine/ 

Scroll down to the map and switch to 'Satellite' at top right then zoom in a bit. (I have modified the gridref in the database just before posting...)

Flashearth link here: http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=54.542893&lon=-3.5982&z=18.3&r=0&src=msl 



Incidentally, Flashearth is currently not working with the newly updated version of Google maps, whereas the embedded link in AditNow does use that data - which appears to be from summer 2006.
Hello again darkness, my old friend...
carnkie
17 years ago
"Vanoord" wrote:

"Dweeb" wrote:

Yes, collieries are mighty interesting places, smething I really want to see more of.

Moving back to the headgear, does anyone have a flash erath of the place?

Ta!



Hehe - this website has a rather useful function built in :)
quote]

More than useful I would suggest. Particularly when the GRs are accurate 😉

🔗Haig-Pit-Coal-Mine-User-Album-Image-010[linkphoto]Haig-Pit-Coal-Mine-User-Album-Image-010[/linkphoto][/link]

Another view
🔗Haig-Pit-Coal-Mine-User-Album-Image-011[linkphoto]Haig-Pit-Coal-Mine-User-Album-Image-011[/linkphoto][/link]





The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.
Buckhill
17 years ago
See the user album for a pic of the headframes and winder houses as they were originally (or rather in the '30s after No 5 was commissioned for coal winding).
Buckhill
17 years ago
Getting back on topic, I've added three more to the archive album. Two show how the catheads changed over time and the other shows the pit bottom set-up in 1982 (pre skip-winding).
LAP
  • LAP
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17 years ago
cheers; pity the other whitehaven mines aren't in a better condition.
Kein geneis kanaf - Cain gnais canaf
Byt vndyd mwyhaf - byth onddyth moyav
Lliaws a bwyllaf - Líows o boylav
Ac a bryderaf - ac o boryddarav
Kyfarchaf y veird byt - covarcav yr vairth
Pryt nam dyweid - poryth na'm dowaith
Py gynheil y byt - Pa gonail y byth
Na syrch yn eissywyt - na soroc yn eishoyth
Neur byt bei syrchei - nour byth bai sorochai

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