There should be no need to send round this bulletin. Any competent owner or manager should already be fully aware of their obligations and have acted accordingly.

Other threads on this forum have recently discussed the qualifications of managers and surveyors in this country and in course of doing so some criticisms were made re the "NCB old boys" and their perceived control of the system. What was not mentioned, however, was that in addition to qualification and training by the NCB their managers and surveyors were required not only to follow M & Q Act & Regs. but also the NCB "PI Instructions". These expanded on the former and gave appointees clear and precise guidance on their obligations to others, which while not legal requirements could be seen as "best practice". Unfortunately they were not part of M & Q so were ignored by others as being irrelevant (I was told by a former employer when following PI procedure to "forget that, you're not working for the %$*%ing Coal Board now".)

The guidance for surveyors (CR/1 1984) was that when workings were approaching a "cautionary zone" (as defined in the Precautions Against Inrushes Regs) they "must inform the Manager of the mine in writing, not less than 8 weeks or as soon as is practicable, of the full facts....and all reservations and doubts which may exist concerning the accuracy of the plans and information must be fully explained". PAI Regs of course make no mention of surveyors (who, after all, should be the ones most likely to be aware of the proximity of sources of danger) only owners and managers!

It would be interesting to know what, if any, interaction occurred between appointees at Gleision.

Matter of fact, as nothing better, in fact nothing else, than CR/1 exists, it is used as guidance in miscellanious mines by surveyors as well although the extend of this might depend on the training/qualification of the appointed surveyor.

I tend to view this document in the same way as Buckhill. It seems a little bit knee-jerk and nanny-state ish.
Owners and especially Managers most of whom are long term mining industry folk will know exactly what they must do. Those that don't should not have been appointed by an Owner anyway.

Regarding ambiguity, when I first read it last night, I was a little confused as to it's intention about whether the 30 day notification was for actual working into a hazardous area only or actually an acknowledgement of present status as well.

I am still further confused now by the fact that when I printed out my emailed copy this morning, the issue date was 'ASAP'.
On showing the document on the HSE website to a meeting today, this had changed to 23rd September 2011.
So the goal posts have moved overnight.

In any event I am happy with our situation, we have only mined water and bullsh*t for the past 30 years..........

I think your reason of thought on Managers,was the main reason this reminder was sent out,after this event.

The 30 day deadline seemed to address both the Hazardous area and the Declaration of best practice in place.

It does seem to me to be essentially an arse-covering exercise sent out by people lacking experience and primarily concerned with litigation avoidance.

That said, it's clear that some very serious failure of management has taken place at Gleision.

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Police have charged a man with manslaughter as they investigate the deaths of four miners in the Gleision colliery disaster.

David Powell, 50, Charles Breslin, 62, Philip Hill, 44, and Garry Jenkins, 39, died in the Swansea Valley mine on 15 September 2011.

Mine manager Malcolm Fyfield has been charged with four counts of gross negligence manslaughter.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-21081302 

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The only possibe outcome of the investigation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-26767637 

One would think by now,over 2yrs since the incident,that the prosectutor would know,that the Gleision had`nt been working on and off for a 100yrs,
Yesterdays radio report on the trial,mentioned shotfiring brought with it 650,000 gallons of water into the 2ft 6in seam,the mention of run in the report,unless they were 60-80yds back,on the plane of the lower conveyor,where there was a walkway alongside,you`d not run in 2ft 6in.
Also a snippet on another news report mentioned the manager did`nt believe there was much water there,
Maybe his defence will be he cannot read.

The inspectors report will be interesting reading.

It will be very interesting to read, and I wait like others to find out what happened. I know of at least two people who were involved in the incident from a rescue point of view and ventured underground too. From what I know it seems so obvious now, but like the rest of us, professionals working in the industry and those with an interest the report and it's accompanying plans and sections will make for a good read.

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http://www.southwales-eveningpost.co.uk/Gleision-trial-Pictures-inside-tragedy/story-21111617-detail/story.html 

I like to think that miners / mine owners are knowledgeable people and very experienced at what they do ,The bond between miners is legendary , and i can't see for one second a mine owner risking even one mans life for a bit of coal
i too will await the findings of the trial

Sadly you have never known many mine owners then.......

I presume you mean Intentionally?

This Legendary Bond you talk about,did`nt alway`s apply in Smallmines.

I like to think that miners / mine owners are knowledgeable people and very experienced at what they do ,The bond between miners is legendary , and i can't see for one second a mine owner risking even one mans life for a bit of coal

A nice image but not always as rosy in real life I'm afraid....ho hum.
There is also the "Go on, chance it....it'll be ok" mentality, which we can all be guilty of at times, followed closely by the "Thank god it worked" response. We have all made bad snap decisions when up against time/cost pressures and breathed a sigh of relief when we got away with it. Some people (me) learn from the close scrapes, some just take it for granted that it will always be ok and then they become reckless. At this point any semblance of control is lost and an accident is waiting to happen. I've seen it. I'm not saying that this is what happened in this case, wait and see the full outcome, but I wouldn't be surprised if it had a bearing on the events.

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More like total disregard for safety and common sense.

I was choosing my words carefully, but yes. 😞

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A bit like the Turkish officials, they don't actually mean to hurt people but these things happen.

Might it be wise to cut the opinion comments until after investigations are finished?.........

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They are just opinions. The damage has already been done.

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