The kwan
11 years ago
"J25GTi" wrote:

"droid" wrote:

I have a question for 'Bigjobs'.

If you have a group of beginners, why make life difficult for yourself taking them on a trip that has a 'reputation'?
Why not take them on a trip down an easier mine, Cwmorthin for example?

Bit like taking a caving beginner on a trip down King Pot rather than Valley Entrance.



Totally agree.

I also have a question, are any of these competent and trained SRT guys stood either side of the ropes etc any of the same crew who thought it would be a good idea to abseil off the bridge in cwmorthin, with no back up, or safety and attached to something that really isnt the best idea to attach to?!

Whom when pointed out how stupid it was, just berated me and I believe all my posts and further threads got deleted about it.



Absolutely No 100% these people were not the ones who abseiled off the bridge at moel Ferna not Cwmorthin although one of them was on the camping part of the trip, he was the lad whos report you commented on and he is not proficient at srt either.
I can tell you that any mod or admin on a site will always get alarm bells ringing when a person signs up and immediately starts confronting other members and dishing out advice in a fashion that although may be correct in context is wrong in approach and this was the problem. I said that you had a valid point and best to start your own thread about it, and you did but whilst your anger was directed at the member who posted the pictures of someone abseiling off the bridge it was picked up by other members who have many years of SRT experience and after people saying that you were correct and your point was indeed a good point your continuation in asking why anyone would take SRT gear to Moel Ferna and pointing out the principles of SRT time and time again in the end just seemed to be an excercise in teaching your nan to suck eggs particularly after someone pointed out that you can use srt gear to get into Moel Ferna.

That is an honest answer to your question and from a moderators point of view it also just says here comes a shed load of tidying up, the best thing to have done would be to report the post and ask for the post or picture to be removed(which I did).
so in short yes you were correct but from were I was standing it was easier to delete the whole lot rather than pick through the whole thread or threads and try to edit it to make sense of it for members to read, although to be honest I didnt deal with it alone as most of the time during the day I am on my phone and cannot really do much with such a small screen.
Easily Led
Bigjobs
11 years ago
Thanks for your civility, I think we've answered your questions to the best of our ability.

I think it's for the best that both The Kwan & I should bow out of this thread now, and let it take it's course.

I'd like to this final opportunity to thank NWCRO, and to let them know that there's a collection underway to show our appreciation for the outstanding service that they provide.
Moorebooks
11 years ago
"Bigjobs" wrote:

Thanks for your civility, I think we've answered your questions to the best of our ability.

I think it's for the best that both The Kwan & I should bow out of this thread now, and let it take it's course.

I'd like to this final opportunity to thank NWCRO, and to let them know that there's a collection underway to show our appreciation for the outstanding service that they provide.



Rather than just making a donation what about giving some of your time to the CRO seems to me if you have lots of technical experience you would be an asset?

Mike
JohnnearCfon
11 years ago
I have been told this evening that the story has made it into the Daily Post. That is not good news (pardon the pun). 😠
royfellows
11 years ago
All the Internet discussion and debate has probably stirred the pot. In retrospect it would have been better to just ignore it and let it go away.
The thread title is wrong anyway, there was no 'incident' at Rhosydd and no rescue, a party was simply late reporting in.

I expect now that the press will exercise their usual devotion to accuracy of fact, or have I more chance of winning the lottery.

My avatar is a poor likeness.
iestyn999
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11 years ago
"royfellows" wrote:


The thread title is wrong anyway, there was no 'incident' at Rhosydd



There's nothing wrong with the title. Everything reported to the emergency services is an incident, regardless of what's happened.

The second the call taker answers the phone, an incident number is created. Standard across all services .
royfellows
11 years ago
"iestyn999" wrote:

"royfellows" wrote:


The thread title is wrong anyway, there was no 'incident' at Rhosydd



There's nothing wrong with the title. Everything reported to the emergency services is an incident, regardless of what's happened.

The second the call taker answers the phone, an incident number is created. Standard across all services .



Regardless of 'what is what' nothing actually happened at Rhosydd. Right!
The title sugests otherwise or is my understanding of the English language at fault.
My avatar is a poor likeness.
Tamarmole
11 years ago
I have been watching this thread with interest.

Things seem to have blown up out of all proportion.

A group underestimated the time a trip would take and were overdue - everyone makes a cock up now and again and with hindsight things could have been done better. That said they had very sensibly left call out instructions which worked as intended; the rescue services were called.

Nobody died - result.
Vanoord
11 years ago
With respect...

I've done the trip several times and I've had a discussion with someone who's done it many times. Neither of us believe that the trip is suitable for either a group of that size; or that it is a suitable trip for taking several novices along.

Hopefully these lessons have been learned and it prevents another situation like this arising.
Hello again darkness, my old friend...
kroca
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11 years ago
I think its time to put this to bed ,and stop going on like a load of old washer women . :curse:
midlandsmineman
11 years ago
"kroca" wrote:

I think its time to put this to bed ,and stop going on like a load of old washer women . :curse:[/quote


:thumbsup:
but what will we have to moan/talk about.....screw it bbc 1 eastenders...yeah right!!!!

iestyn999
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11 years ago
No, your understanding of emergency dispatch is wrong.

NWCRO might not have actually arrived on scene, but local mountain rescue teams did, as did the police, and as did I with the ambulance service. So it was an incident.
droid
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11 years ago
Semantics.

I still don't understand why a trip with a 'reputation' was considered as a suitable trip for beginners, when other more suitable trips were available.

Given the circumstances, an overrun was pretty much guaranteed. I am surprised that the 'experienced' people in the group hadn't sussed that.

The word 'irresponsible' comes to mind and neither The Kwan or Bigjobs' contributions alter that.
christwigg
11 years ago
As suggested several times before can we PLEASE just let this lie now ?

I think they already knew mistakes were made without another 30 people telling them the same over and over again.

Can anyone here truly say they've never had a single thing go wrong underground ?

Never had an epic ?

Never had a close call ?

If you've answered yes to all of those questions then I salute your text book mine exploring career.





droid
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11 years ago
There's a big difference between an unforseen incident underground and something wholly predictable.

But in deference to your sensibilities, Chris, I'll let it lie now.... 😉
50shadesofgreen
11 years ago
As there are several forum members on this thread who are in the rescue organisations ( bless you all ). Are you able to suggest an appropriate length of time, after which an overdue party should be called out ?

If I aimed to be back overground about 6pm. I would normally suggest not calling out the cavalry until midnight ? Is that too long ?

We have emerged late by around 8pm, spurred on by the thoughts that the pubs will be closing, before we are back and showered.
Wormster
11 years ago
"50shadesofgreen" wrote:


If I aimed to be back overground about 6pm. I would normally suggest not calling out the cavalry until midnight ? Is that too long ?



Far too long, call out time is call out time!

In your instance above, suppose you had fallen and broken yourself 6 hours is a long time to wait underground, in pain - hypothermia might have set in along with possibly other complications - the emergency services working above ground have what is called the "Golden Hour" in which to stabilise a casulty and transport to hospital, by delaying by 6 hours you could be adding complications to what is already a difficult process!
Better to regret something you have done - than to regret something you have not done.
Peter Burgess
11 years ago
When on our regular digging evenings, I always make it clear - expect an all clear call around 10.30, call-out time is 11. We are normally out by 10.15.
sinker
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11 years ago
I always tell Mrs Sinker that if I'm home BEFORE Radio 4 switches over to The World Service then THAT is a sign that something went wrong :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yma O Hyd....
JohnnearCfon
11 years ago
I usually give an expected time then the "panic" time is one hour later.

I agree 6 hours is far too long, but 30 minutes is not really enough. In some case I would make the "panic" time 90 minutes later, certainly no more.

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