Seeing as SimonRL hasn't done the through trip from Croesor to Rhosydd for at least a week... we're doing it tomorrow, Saturday 17th September

Does anyone else want to come along?! 😮

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Was going to be over this weekend but can't get away on Saturday morning now so not coming now unfortunately.

Looking at the grey weather forecasted however can't say I'm too heartbroken about not camping anymore!

Its always grey round Blaenau :lol:

Were just over the hill at Fronboeth on the Saturday but may meet up at some point :thumbsup:

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Pull that canadian boat out boys & girls got a repair to do.

Thanks Paul F 🙂

It's somewhat in the way at the moment...!

The rigging in there in certain places has got a bit troublesome and could do with a bit of a tidy-up / removal of some of the worse bits.

There is, I think, an argument for reducing the amount of fixed rigging, not from a point of view of making the trip 'traditional' but rather to reduce the complexity a bit - the chamber with the near-intact bridge being a good example of how it should be rigged.

As a slight aside, the chamber that's used for the dinghy crossing in particular is in a pretty terrible state, with a lot of debris littering it. I'm almost of a mind to suggest that the chamber would be better crossed with a couple of traverses rather than continually littering it with punctured PVC dinghies.

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What about resined in D hangers with a polyprop as a pull through system for the 2 big pitches just in case they need to pull the rop back? Means people take there own kit then :)

Every time i have been through there there are more dead boats. The raft didnt last so were planning on going to remove it some time soon. Trouble is the place gets so much traffic its always going to have people leaving stuff behind :thumbdown:

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Although it's an argument that always goes round in circles, I'll visit it again!

I think the risk of having the two big pitches set up for "rig it yourself" is going to be asking for trouble, on a couple of grounds.

Firstly, there's the chance that someone doesn't understand the concept of a pull-through and does something really daft.

Secondly, there's the chance that someone tips up with only one rope, rigs it on the first abseil in a fixed way; realises they need another rope only when they get to the second pitch and then get stuck because they can't ascend back up the first pitch.

I might add to that the possibility that someone pulls through entirely, with no way of recovery (then can't get out); and indeed the vague chance that non-fixed rigging increases the chances of someone not using the rope protection and encountering problems that way - although how that's not already happened, I'm not sure.

Although I can see the logic in altering the pitches in order to try and ensure that the skill set of those going through is raised, it has the potential for causing big problems for those who are going to do the trip without the necessary skills - something that can not be prevented.

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Yup i agree its never going to be a straight forward solution till some one puts fixed lifts and escalators all the way through :lol:

The first pitch could be done reasonably well like the pitch in Ratgoed with 2 fixed hangers and a pull through rope. The second one would massivly benefit from a short traverse and then a straight hang rather than the way it is currently rigged. It would avoid all the slipping and sliding on the slab on the way down.

TBH if it was done and a notice put at the entrance before you go in advising people of the pull throughs and not to attempt unless they know what to do then it warns them of some complications in rigging rather than turning up and expecting it to be a walk in the park like most people normally do.

Its something that will raise discussions for years but just needs some one to go in and do it and not own up to it :lol:

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Yes, but...

Someone who has travelled for a couple of hundred miles to do the trip is not necessarily going to pay a lot of attention to notices - they'll just ignore them!

The trouble is that if you somehow raise the required skill level, do you become responsible for things that go wrong as a result of someone who doesn't come to that level injuring themselves - who may argue that if the rigging hadn't been changed, the problem would not have arisen?

Of course, the flip-side of that is that whoever put in a rope is, in theory, partially responsible for it eventually fraying through / or whoever put in a bolt may be considered responsible if it fails due to bad placement (which may have been fine when it went in) etc. etc. etc..


Both sides of the argument can - of course - be countered by: "it's your responsibility to check the fixed rigging before you use it - and your use of it implies that you have done so; and that you are satisfied that it is suitable for you to use."


My point of view is that if you accept that any rigging someone may have put in (and not told anyone that you did so) should be as simple to use as possible and should be designed so as to require the lowest possible amount of skill, thus reducing the chances that someone gets trapped in there (or worse).



On a more technical note, the second pitch is generally nightmarish. I've heard comments in the past that it should be rigged in accordance with best practice from the roof above, which would require some sort of flying contraption and the ability to shotcrete the flaky rock back to stability!

With that out of the way, the wall to the left (looking down) offers something of a better option, although the wall itself is a bit flaky as well, so it might be difficult to bolt safely.

One thought would be a second deviation somewhere around the overhang, where there's some lovely plastic rope protection bolted to the face. If that kept the rope going over the edge at the protected point, that should resolve most of the rope-related problems, while the slipperiness of the slab could be resolved by hammering a couple of steps out of it.

Not a perfect solution from any point of view, but it would probably work as long as people understand what the deviations are for...

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Very true 😞 its a nightmare that will never find a solution. The rubber matting is thanks to a very well travelled explorer who takes it upon him self to bring rope protectors every time he comes up and fixes them where they are required and as such is doing a fantastic job to preserve the ropes :flowers:

As you say the biggest proble there is that people are nto using the rope protectors that are in place and as such ropes get shredded very quickly. :thumbdown:

Lets put one HUGE zip line from the first abb into the chamber with the zip over the lake in :lol: :thumbsup:

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Very true 😞 its a nightmare that will never find a solution. The rubber matting is thanks to a very well travelled explorer who takes it upon him self to bring rope protectors every time he comes up and fixes them where they are required and as such is doing a fantastic job to preserve the ropes :flowers:

As you say the biggest proble there is that people are nto using the rope protectors that are in place and as such ropes get shredded very quickly. :thumbdown:

Lets put one HUGE zip line from the first abb into the chamber with the zip over the lake in :lol: :thumbsup:

The rubber matting and the rubberised carpet (and the rubber matting on the first pitch) has made a huge difference to the amount of wear the ropes get :thumbsup: although the rope protectors are still IMO important because they extend just a little but further down to where the ropes completely clear the rock face.

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