Vanoord
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17 years ago
I'm sure these deserve their own thread :)

Following the take-over of Cwmorthin in 1900 by Oakeley following the failure of the New Welsh Slate Company, Cwmorthin was mostly abandoned.

As several of the walls in Cwmorthin's old vein were in bad condition, the old vein was allowed to flood up to C floor where several "suspicious looking" bridges crossed the chambers: thus these became the 'floating' bridges.

The water was dammed up behind the 'hurdles' tunnel and flowed out into Oakeley floor 1 to maintain the height. This state of affairs lasted until the mid 1930's when both the old vein and the back vein were drained, the OV via a sloping tunnel at the end of Oakeley DE ('Lefel Cwmorthin', 1931)

The Old Vein is documented here: http://www.aditnow.co.uk/album/Cwmorthin-Slate-Mine-09-07-2006/ 

Here are a couple of the bridges: a 'standard' one first -

🔗Cwmorthin-Slate-Mine-09-07-2006-Image-001[linkphoto]Cwmorthin-Slate-Mine-09-07-2006-Image-001[/linkphoto][/link]

And one with a 'side bridge' that connects to the working face on the floor - I think this is pretty unique in terms of surviving bridges?

🔗Cwmorthin-Slate-Mine-09-07-2006-Image-011[linkphoto]Cwmorthin-Slate-Mine-09-07-2006-Image-011[/linkphoto][/link]

One thing I can't find out is why it is that the Old Vein was dewatered: the back vein was worked again in the late 1930's (on D and also below) whereas I can't see that the OV was worked. My best guess was that it was to prevent the works underneath the OV (ie those seeking the new vein) from becoming flooded in case they opened up a way into the OV?
Hello again darkness, my old friend...
stevem
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17 years ago
Excellent Stuff...
Hope to have a look tomorrow..
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grahami
17 years ago
Why was the Old Vein Dewatered (first)? Well the answer lies in one of Thomas Jones' Reports (The Oakeley Consulting Engineer & Surveyor) from 1923:
"He therefore proposed that to safeguard the western development area, the Cwmorthin "ponds" should be drained. The Old Vein was already connected to Cwmorthin floor C leaving a 95 feet deep "pond" which could be drained by driving an 80 yard level from DE and tapping the water on Cwmorthin floor E. The Back Vein "pond" was 240 feet deep up to Cwmorthin Lake Level and could be drained from DE by a level about 115 yards long over wall 36 into the Back Vein chamber 10 on floor E. He had no doubts that the walls and chambers of the ponded Cwmorthin Back Vein were still sound and whole. The chamber 34 incline would then permit the extension of the floors from DE downwards under Cwmorthin to the lake boundary, traffic being hauled by a petrol or electric loco to the main inclines. Cwmorthin did not pay as a separate concern, but when connected through, this would not be a problem. Only ten feet or so of water would remain to be pumped, which was a small matter. The area should provide for 25 to 30 chambers from G floor downwards, which would pay to work them. Cwmorthin, he asserted, was the main future reserve. he suggested that the new compressor should be placed near chamber 34, electrolytic copper was only 73 per ton and the loss of air pressure there was greater than the loss of current."

Nothing happened for several years, but the project was restarted around 1930, culminating in the connection being made in 1932 as follows:
"The pilot hole tapped the workings on January 6th. "The flooded area", Humphreys commented, "contains 15 chambers with water to a height of 95 feet. The height of water is being lowered at 2.75 inches per hour. By the time this report is in your hands, we shall be able to walk on Cwmorthin floor D." In another week E would be near, however, some form of mechanical pumping would have to be employed at the last stage. They were unable to ascertain the condition of walls and roofs, or the depth of silt, some bridges were still up, but were "quite unsafe." Some 15,000 cubic feet or 97,500 gallons of water would be left in the bottom tunnel, which, they thought, could be cleared in about 16 hours with a small pneumatic pump.

The drainage level in the Old Vein was 373 feet long and had cost 528. By the 2nd. March the water level was down to 1ft. 9in. The floor difference was found to be about 11 to 12 feet, giving about 10 feet of water to be drained by pumping. Until this was cleared, Humphreys pointed out, it was impossible to make a report. Work now began on the Back Vein drainage tunnel, whose length was estimated to be 250 feet. this was thought to be a much bigger problem than the Old Vein as no-one knew the ground, and the chambers were flooded up to their roofs.
"

The ground was known to be cracked in the west - especially in the area of the Old Vein, and concern had been expressed many times over the danger of accidentally "holing through" either into unmarked workings or into broken ground which connected with the flooded workings. As there was also serious concern at the time over the ability of the pumping plant to deal with the current water intake, any sudden influx was not to be risked!

So it was a case of removing the threat of the Old Vein waters combined with the fact that the chambers etc. could be seen from the floating bridges which made the Old Vein the first to be dewatered. As it turned out there was very little worthwhile in the Old Vein, but it paved the way for the Back Vein de-watering.

Happy New Year

Grahami
The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.
Vanoord
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17 years ago
Thanks Graham :)

I was a little surprised at the depth of water that was in the back vein, but I suppose on reflection that there would have been no other way out for and it would have filled up until it drained out through the lake level adit.

Do you know if any other connections were made to Oakeley? Having found the "lost" chambers at the far end of the Cwmorthin Back Vein it seemed as if there had been some work immediately pre-WWII in Cwmorthin as this slab, abandoned on Floor C (might be D) (ch 7 or thereabouts), suggests:

🔗Dark-Places-Big-Bash-Cwmorthin-Trip-05-08-2007-Image-004[linkphoto]Dark-Places-Big-Bash-Cwmorthin-Trip-05-08-2007-Image-004[/linkphoto][/link]

At the far end of D are the remains a bridge that spans Chamber 10/11 (?) which presumably maintained access to beyond. What I can't quite see is that Oskeley would have replaced any of the bridges on C or D in Cwmorthin in order that slate could be carted to the Back Vein Incline, then down that to E and along, up the slope to Lefel French and along that in order to get it out.

I would assume that there was, therefore, some sort of easier connection at the Oakeley side, possibly in the chambers that are now only accessible by going through the wall of the Ch34 incline winder.

I did mean to go back and have a look in those "lost" chambers but the opportunity never presented itself. I'll add it to the list for '08...
Hello again darkness, my old friend...
grahami
17 years ago
To go through this in full would be a bit lengthy in a forum, even for me! I'll post a document shortly - and you can then read it through at your leisure. Suffice it to say there are NO connections between Oakeley and Cwmorthin in the Back vein apart from on DE and G - why? - because there are NO Oakeley Back Vein workings that far west! The G Back Vein was an isolated section, which was why it was accessed by a long North going level.

Just to complete the story of the dewatering, however:
"[i]In 1932-33 in the west the dewatering level for the Back Vein was not proceeding at the hoped for rate. A 5.5 inch hole was being driven ahead of the level, the whole being done by Messrs. Isler - a French firm after whom the level was eventually named - Lefel Ffrench - or should that be Lefel Ffrainc ? Anyway, the rock proved harder than expected, and the effects on the bit were to break and wear some of the diamonds and their setting. The bit was replaced by one made of "Stellite", but this drastically reduced the drilling speed to 12" per day. The Oakeley engineers, however, were optimistic that they could easily modify the whole arrangement, and were hoping for 20" per day as a result. Fifty feet remained to be driven by February 1933, of which 27 feet had been drilled. A trial level on Cwmorthin Old Vein floor D disposed of the hope of finding any economic New Vein beneath Cwmorthin - the future had to lie in the Back and Old Veins.

The bore hole penetrated through to the Back Vein of Cwmorthin on the 21st. April, 1933, and the draining down of the estimated 45 million gallons contained in the Back Vein workings was completed to bore hole level in 4 weeks. The cost had been £393/8/6d. plus the costs borne by the Oakeley Company for tool setting, compressed air, mechanical assistance and lighting. The level was subsequently driven through along the line of the bore hole, and the residual waters pumped out. Preparations were now completed fro laying track suitable for a petrol loco along the DE level to serve the chamber 34 incline, as it was thought too long for horses.


The dewatered Back Vein of Cwmorthin was now examined. Most was "inaccessible and dangerous", the roofs from D upwards having collapsed in several places. The chambers to the west of the old incline were good however. If for no other reason, the dewatering was a good job, thought Humphreys, "as the water will no longer be a menace." By March, 1934, a test level had been driven in chamber 4 west of the old Cwmorthin incline, which proved the Back Vein to be about 160 feet thick, and "gives bright promise for future development of this Vein on Oakeley floors below Cwmorthin." The chamber 34 incline was now being properly equipped with an electric motor and two drums. The power cables were fixed in position by September and the whole thing was ready for testing. However, the shortage of compressed air at these extreme extensions of both the Oakeley air network, and that being supplied by the compressors at Cwmorthin was considerable, and both Humphreys and Percy Jones were certain that what was needed was a new compressor situated close to the chamber 34 incline would suit both, especially as the cables were already there."

That should keep you thinking for a bit. Most of this has appeared in "Cwmorthin" though the wording may vary a bit.

Graham
The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.
grahami
17 years ago
OK - here's the lengthy bit. It covers the story of Cwmorthin from 1925-39 in horrendous detail. If you're prepared to wait long enough, you may eventually see it again in hard copy as one section of "Oakeley Slate - Part 3" But we've got to get "Oakeley Slate - Part 1" off the ground and into print first - then sell enough to make Part 2 possible etc.
http://www.aditnow.co.uk/documents/Cwmorthin-Slate-Mine/Cwmorthin_1925-39.pdf 
Just bear in mind that as one chapter from many, it doesn't bother to explain who the dramatis personae are, but I hope it's fairly clear from the context.

Enjoy.


Grahami!
The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.
JohnnearCfon
17 years ago
Just read through that document. The detail is tremendous. Thank's for sharing it before the book is published. No wonder it has now grown to be a 3 volume work!

I am eagerly awaiting the first volume (plus 2 & 3 of course). I remember you saying volume 1 was being given a final edit a few months back, any idea when it will be out?
grahami
17 years ago
"Oakeley Slate - Part 1 1800-1889 - From Beginnings to the Great Fall" (draft title) is still in progress with the editors.
I've completed my editing of the text on the basis of their comments.
They are now working on composition (i.e. trying to insert the illustrations into the text, deciding on where photographs will be etc.) and obtaining the relevant permissions etc. for reproduction of archive photos.
I'm hoping for publication at some point during 2008 - but that's not under my control. When I know - I'll let you all know!

Maybe with all the info this site and others are collecting on Cwmorthin, we could create a virtual tour of Cwmorthin keyed to a map (or maps). Hot spots on the maps could bring up more detailed maps, with hot spots on those linked to photos... and each photo linked to the next etc. It's an idea anyway - and once a method was created, it could be repeated for other mines where sufficient photos and maps etc. exist.

Graham

Grahami

The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.
simonrl
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17 years ago
"grahami" wrote:

Maybe with all the info this site and others are collecting on Cwmorthin, we could create a virtual tour of Cwmorthin keyed to a map (or maps). Hot spots on the maps could bring up more detailed maps, with hot spots on those linked to photos... and each photo linked to the next etc. It's an idea anyway - and once a method was created, it could be repeated for other mines where sufficient photos and maps etc. exist.



An excellent idea; and unless you did it all in Flash or similar (probably not idea anyway) it wouldn't be that difficult to do. Possibly as simple as a collection of linked imagemaps.
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