RRX
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13 years ago
Your welcome, but please, from me, stop with this constant moaning about the systems that are in place and work fine when you arnt willing to actually come and see for yourself what goes on, if the **** hits the fan underground, people will be there to get you out as quickly and safely as possible for everyone concerned, if you arnt happy with this then actually do something about it

Back on topic please
www.carbisbaycrew.co.uk Cornwall's Underground Site
RRX
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13 years ago
Well as it was me that said if the air was dead down busy that it wouldn't be a rescue, it would be suicide to send more people in to pull you out as by the time anyone got to you it would be body retrieval, this would still be done, maybe your "rescue" services are quiet happy to kill themselves in no o2 but I would much prefer to pull anyone out safely in 1 piece, I am giving up my time along with many others to be there for when the worst happens so don't you consider it quiet selfish to expect people to come after you when you are going into the unknown, just look at what has just happend in shropshire, I hope your rescue teams Tesco value paracetmol is as effective entinox for pain relief
www.carbisbaycrew.co.uk Cornwall's Underground Site
stuey
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13 years ago
Let's hope it never comes to a situation where any of this is required.

As always, I fully appreciate that any sort of rescue is a luxury provided by honourable people.

My concern as always is that someone gets injured and protocol stands in the way of an otherwise doable rescue.

This has happened up and down the country.

It's similar to surfing a gnarly reef break in a chunky swell and expecting the lifeguards to risk themselves if you come a cropper. When blanket things like "We don't attempt rescues in onshore winds, or at high tide" come into play, perhaps the situation is compromised.

I suppose when you start thinking about all the "duty of care" crap for professionals, it removes a load of the "sod it, we'll go in anyway" which is perhaps needed to affect a proper rescue.

When we were in WB the second time, the air was probably thin enough to merit the hysteria to get everyone needing BA (according to protocol) and we were probably far enough away and through alkward enough gaps that it would have been a multi cylinder job, by that time whatever was going on at the far end could have resulted in the situation deteriorating.

(NB:- The air was fine in there from a human biology point of view and was not borderline and would have been "gone in" and considered fine by any experienced cavers)

This assumes that there would have been no pissing around at the top of the shaft with all the other risk assessment/rigging nonsense ensuring all duties of care are met and all the boxes are ticked.

This may seem like a personal dig, but it isn't. I have the utmost respect for all and any involved in rescue. However, I do think that HSE box ticking gets in the way sometimes and this has been proven by people snuffing it up country.

I bloody well hope it doesn't happen here.

I suppose "caving" properly should ensure the minimal probability of an accident.

Anyway, probably better to stop this tangent from the thread!
RRX
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13 years ago
Agreed, and please respond on fb as need to chat, preferably over a pint
www.carbisbaycrew.co.uk Cornwall's Underground Site
Tin Miner
13 years ago
Hello Explorers - I'm inactive now due to medical problems... but still keep my eyes and ears open and post very seldom now. Perhaps someone could develope a website which was private and potential members would have to be vetted by the owner... just an idea... if a private forum very easy to maintain and you'd know who was permitted to view sensitive material.
I do enjoy reading up on all the mining trips undertaken in the south west... and yes... get envious that I can't participate these days. Out again for another 2 weeks... just had operation... oh well there's people worse off than me.
Good luck to you all and keep the photo's coming (well, the ones that won't cause concern), and write ups... keeps me interested.
Kindest regards Tin Miner
Colin McClary
13 years ago
Having observed a practice incident some months ago i can tell you that i am going to take some convincing that anything apropos mine rescue in Cornwall by statutory bodies is fit for purpose. Sorry but i was there, and with 32 years experience.
RRX
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13 years ago
Colin personally I can't blame you, I was there too and annoyed that what happend did, the way forward imho is to get people together and get a resolution and finally put an end to this issue, but its up to them in charge to put the past behind them and move forward which I hope can be done, as with the skillset in this county we have probably got the ability to have the best rescue team in the country. For those in charge of the relevant clubs/teams/etc I would suggest giving each other a call and actually starting to work with each other.
Jim
www.carbisbaycrew.co.uk Cornwall's Underground Site
Colin McClary
13 years ago
Yes, i agree, but there has never been an acceptance by either party, especially CFRS,that anything untoward happened, it was a major failure of technique and proceedure. Unfortunately there are also perceived conflicts of interest that remain unresolved. We have tried to establish better relations but through no fault of our own we have failed. Thanks for the measured response.
royfellows
13 years ago
Off thread, what else is new, but I think I speak for everyone here.

Tin Miner, my very best wishes for your better health.
Speedy recovery mate.

My avatar is a poor likeness.
Colin McClary
13 years ago
Way off, perhaps a new thread to address this issue (cornish mine rescue) may be of use. There are obviously many concerned people out there and some of us who feel we are beating our heads against a wall. Just trying to discuss instead of papering over the cracks. With good intentions. Regards.
Tin Miner
13 years ago
"royfellows" wrote:

Tin Miner, my very best wishes for your better health.
Speedy recovery mate.



Thanks Roy... op ok as far as I know... back to remove dressings end of next week. No driving is driving me up the wall... fed up with walking or public transport.

Hope you're well, and catch up soon, regards Tin Miner
simontheminer
13 years ago
Hello, I wanted to thank everyone who has looked at my site and has given me feedback. I hope it is proving interesting to all, it has now expanded to 60 pages with 470 odd images, as soon as I get upto a 1000 or so I will take a weekend off. Also, I need to ask for some techincal help, I am currently putting a page together covering the various processes employed at the Wheal Jane Mill. My knowledge in this area is limited,if someone is willing to help me out with details and descriptions on the images I would be most grateful.
Please message me, thanks again
Simon
Tamarmole
13 years ago
"Colin McClary" wrote:

Way off, perhaps a new thread to address this issue (cornish mine rescue) may be of use. There are obviously many concerned people out there and some of us who feel we are beating our heads against a wall. Just trying to discuss instead of papering over the cracks. With good intentions. Regards.



Given the myriad sensitivities of the subject I am not convinced that an open forum is the appropriate place for this discussion.

stuey
  • stuey
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13 years ago
"Tamarmole" wrote:

"Colin McClary" wrote:

Way off, perhaps a new thread to address this issue (cornish mine rescue) may be of use. There are obviously many concerned people out there and some of us who feel we are beating our heads against a wall. Just trying to discuss instead of papering over the cracks. With good intentions. Regards.



Given the myriad sensitivities of the subject I am not convinced that an open forum is the appropriate place for this discussion.



I think it's fine. After all, we are grown ups and as long as we keep ad-hominems out of our argument, there is nothing to get excited about.

The techniques, procedure are ripe for a good discussion.

Clearly there is potential for discussion as plenty of us agree that the present situation is procedurally and technically bollocks.

As long as we can keep the handwringing, bedwetting and getting-upset-on-the-behalf-of-others out of it and remain level headed adults, we should enjoy a good debate, accept that there are some points we disagree with, shake hands and get excited about something much more serious, like the lib dems ruining the government even more than they are ruining themselves! :lol:
Peter Burgess
13 years ago
Given that Simon has just posted here for the first time, isn't it a little off-hand to continue this rescue debate in the same topic, instead of starting a new one? Just a thought.

Welcome, Simon, even if you have been window shopping here for a year or two!
mcdermit
13 years ago
wow lovely photos i wish was more people doing this :thumbup:
simontheminer
13 years ago
Just to keep everyone informed there are now over 800 images on the site, and today there are Five (90 images) new underground galleries of South Crofty in the 90's.
Thanks for your support any comments or info on the images would be gratefully recieved
Brakeman
13 years ago
"simontheminer" wrote:

Just to keep everyone informed there are now over 800 images on the site, and today there are Five (90 images) new underground galleries of South Crofty in the 90's.
Thanks for your support any comments or info on the images would be gratefully recieved



Just had a good look through these, I must say this is the best set of Cornish working miner photos I have seen, It's especially good to be able to see these guys at work unposed, some great photos, look forward to seeing more :thumbup:
The management thanks you for your co operation.

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