Seeing as our much loved engines are in the forum... something I've been wondering (and I hope Spitfire will pick this up) is how many types/variants of Man Engine where there? I ask as I believe tell there was a direct acting one originally yet most seem to have been rotary driven by gears. Also did Cornwall have a water powered versions.
I understand the theory on how they work having the drawings of the levant engine and shaft arrangement but was wondering how these assemblies would have been set up to achieve the perfect balance on the crank at surface given that the up and down strokes must balance perfectly for smooth operation without any jarring action at all. Was this achieved by just the use of balance boxes and testing or did this also require judicious setting up of the engine in conjunction...? What types of engines were used, beam, horiz?
Read what I can find but I thought perhaps some more detail would be nice apertaing to the design, installation and operation.... So what do we know? 🙂

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The first man engine was installed in 1842 at Tresavean by its inventor Michael Loam. It was water wheel driven and had a stroke of 6ft and only went to a depth of 24 fathoms, this engine was the double rod type. by the following year it was converted to steam and the stroke was increased to 12ft it was also extended to a depth of 248 fathoms ( 290 from surface )
Balancing was exactly the same as a pumping engine with balance boxes. The rotary engine drove flat rods at surface to an angle bob at the shaft collar which converted horizontal motion to vertical.
An exception to this was at United which was the second to be installed in 1845. This engine was balanced by chains connected to the rods which ran over a pulley to a large cast iron weight. This did not prove to be a success as it proved to be very high on maintenance due to the corrosive nature of the vapour in a copper mine, this engine was also the last double type to be installed. Had these weights been successful it would be fair to say they would have been used on all future pumping engines as they were far cheaper to install, doing away with cutting bob plats in the shaft
The next engine was installed at Fowey Consols' and was driven by a water wheel, to aid with the smooth running this wheel was fitted with a fifteen ton flywheel.
All Man engines were driven by rotary engines ( water or steam ) with the exception of two, Wheal Reeth and Wheal Vor.
The one at Wheal Reeth was connected directly to a redundant pumping engine with an adapted steam valve the one at Wheal Vor was connected to a Bull engine.
It is a sad but true fact that the Man engine is best remembered for the accident at Levant rather than the countless number of lives it must have saved

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Thanks as always.... Good point re lives saved. How many man engines were known to have operated in Cornwall? Where they common as I sometimes get the feeling they were not?

Also in terms of engineering obviously these things were built to suit the shafts etc but were most of the fittings etc standardised by the likes of Holman /Harvey's et al or was it likely that each specific application resulted in unique parts?

Also as an aside do you think these were high maintenance and reliable... I ask as we obviously have the old costs versus quality / safety issue here.

Regards ICLOK

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Like all things mechanical some were well maintained while others were not. One of the worst was at Carn Brea Mine where it was installed in that curse of most metal mines the crooked shaft. Sometimes the the miner would ride at the front of the rod sometimes the back or even the side.
There were sixteen engines installed in Cornwall and two at Devon Great Cosols'. Some mines move their engines to other shafts such as South Caradon and cooks Kitchen
The cost of a new engine would be in the region of £2000
To make things more economic some driving engines were to perform other duties. he one at United drove a copper crusher and a small lift of pumps, while the original one at Levant drove a winder to a nearby shaft

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But did the manufacturers in all probability have a standard set of kit... Ie were the strokes of these things fairly standard thus Harveys as a for instance could simply supply off the shelf tack such as the gearing etc...

Bet the crooked shaft example was fun going from one side of rod to other.

Any other notable failures recorded or was levant the only one?

Regs ICLOK

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The gear wheels and their like would come from any foundry.
As for breakages they would be about the same as a pumping engine, I think that at sometime the rods on the engine at Levant suffered from dry rot

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Do we know if these were designed by mine engineers or by suppliers??? may be a both together?

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Hocking & Loam were the main engineers and then independent as they went their separate ways. Others were designed in house such as Fowey Consols which was designed by William West and Captain Puckey.
The two at Devon Great Consols were built including the foundry work on the mine

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So in essence these machines in operation were generally 'accepted' but were an individually crafted item based on experience and the skill of the building engineers for each and every application.....?

The guys responsible for the builds must have been very professional and worked remarkably hard... their roles including,

Definition of Spec with customer,
Manufacturing Spec & supplier selection
Quality & Material Control
Build Control (inc Subcontractors)
Project co-ordination/engineering with on site guys and mine engineers...
Commissioning

Given these were probably recognised even at the time as somewhat safety critical as they are man riders, one has to wonder how much consideration was given to safety/versus cost?
It would be interesting from a welfare perspective for the men or was it just as a way of getting more from the guys at greater depths for the same dosh...?.

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I think it is fair to say; that after the third engine the rest were installed on ecconomic concerns rather than humanitarian.
As for installation skills it was no different or easier than installing pump pitwork

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Living next to Tresavean Mine, I have spent a great deal of time researching the man engine, and I think it only fair to point out that although Michael Loam designed and installed the Tresavean man engine, he did not invent it.
His design was based on man engines working in the Hartz mining region of Germany and first put to work in 1833 at Spegelthal Mine under the direction of a Herr Doerell, who in turn had adapted the idea from a similar set up used for raising only ore, in mines at Falun in Sweden as early as 1694, the design for which is attributed to a Christopher Polhammer (almost sounds Cornish).
John Taylor had seen these engines at work in Germany around 1835/6 and if it hadn't been for the problems with his lease on Consols, the first engines would undoubtedly have been installed there.
So, although a seemingly new and unique machine to the British mainland, its use on the continent had been known since the seventeenth century.

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I do not truly believe that Roy. I too have read of the Swedish machine but how on earth you would raise ore with a man engine beats me, come to that why would you want to?
As for the German engine, Michael Loams engine existed albeit in model form a full five years earlier.
Also Taylor who was in full favour of Loams engine, was taking this model to meetings 1830/31.
Had it not been for the actions of Herr Hitler that bombed the archives of Taylor and Son our knowledge of the Man Engine would be far richer.

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For those that are interested; the original model of Loams Man Engine is at the County Museum Truro

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I do not truly believe that Roy. I too have read of the Swedish machine but how on earth you would raise ore with a man engine beats me, come to that why would you want to?
As for the German engine, Michael Loams engine existed albeit in model form a full five years earlier.
Also Taylor who was in full favour of Loams engine, was taking this model to meetings 1830/31.
Had it not been for the actions of Herr Hitler that bombed the archives of Taylor and Son our knowledge of the Man Engine would be far richer.

I agree with most of that info and have, it seems, been along the same routes of investigation myself. However the fact still remains that Loam's design was an adaptation rather than an invention in the true sense of the word. I am also at a loss as to how a machine like a man engine could raise and discharge ore. I can imagine a few designs but they would be complex in construction and probably dangerous in operation 😞
More research is needed on this and yes, the Luftwaffe have a lot to answer for in terms of destruction of archive material, but then, I guess Berlin probably came off worse.

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Sure as hell Dresden did. Just been reading a letter by Henwood written in 1841 on this subject where he talks about his ideas on the construction of the ladders. I get the impression he wasn't that keen on the Man Engine but I could be wrong.

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The German machine came about when two pumping engines in the same shaft were made redundant by the driving of a deep adit in the Hartz Mountains. These were adapted to become Man Engines.
It is my belief that this idea was given to the Germans by Taylor or one of his close associates on one of their frequent visits to the Hartz (this at present cannot be proved and must remain a theory)
As I have said Loams model existed a full five years before this engine existed, so how could it have been based on that?
I accept that the engine at Tresavean was a double rod type the same as the Hartz one and that Loams model was of the single rod type.
This came about I believe because of the mistaken belief ( and this belief still exists in some quarters today ) that a double rod engine would perform its duty twice as fast as a single. The fact is the opposite, the double rod only works at three strokes per min' while the single works at six. Also the double rod can only be used in one direction at a time Where the single rod can be used by men in either direction at the same time. It is because of the use of the double rod
type at Tresavean that the German myth came about
Loam could not base his model on something that did not exist

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