Had a particularly smelly though enjoyable first visit to Long Tor grotto last night. masses to see, plenty to return to for a photo trip. So i was wondering if any of you fine peeps has a short route to a survey? Thanks,
O.G.

So you've finally braved the "stinky sough", hope you had a good dunk in the river afterwards! There aren't any surveys in the public domain to the best of my knowledge and I've not heard of any unpublished ones, though Historytrog would be the person most likely to know if one has been done at any point.

p.s. I do however have a copy of the Long Tor Top Mine survey.

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Andy Hayes and I did a survey back in the 1970s. It did not get published because parts 2 and 3 of our Matlock books were rejected. The extent of workings is shown on an area map in Vol. 1 of the Mines and Caverns of Matlock Bath. There were also various very rough partial plans made in the 1950s.
The Long Tor survey will of course be published in my new book “The Matlocks: Mines, Caverns, and Thermal Springs” – if the PDMHS are so inclined. I am still waiting for things to happen in that direction. Its text is now sufficiently rounded out not to require any more research but new stuff still comes up from time to time. Though I say it myself, it marks a staggering advance in our knowledge of the Matlock mines (this is also the opinion of other readers of the draft).
I had always hoped that some bright spark would extend the Long Tor workings – either a dig behind the steps in the entrance stope or at the collapses at the north end. There is also the coffin level sough that used to exist under the old Whittaker’s mineral water factory – no-one has been into that in living memory (at least, not that I know to).

A gauntlet seems to have been thrown down! :thumbup: may need a helper or two with no sense of smell :lol:
O. G.

And remember your promise never to go digging!

I could supervise and retire to the P. V. :lol:

I've wondered in the past about a dig on the old show-cave entrance to Old Tor, just to avoid the squalor of the river adit! That coffin level sounds interesting too, though I'm guessing it would have to be accessed from the inwards end if it could be located.

As for publishing the Matlock mines book, although I can't speak for the society as a whole on this I'm certainly in favour of PDMHS publishing it.

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S

p.s. I do however have a copy of the Long Tor Top Mine survey.

The people who's garden you cross to reach 'top' are very loathe to allow ANY access a) due to privacy issues,
b) having been scared by tales of horrific collape and certain doom / insurance claims by a kind neighbour.!!
Ric'

The coffin level was a sough on Blackstone Shaft Vein. There was supposed to be a shallow shaft on it just behind the old mineral water factory. Its tail was presumably on the riverbank where a trickle of thermal water still issues (about 5 gallons per minute). So far as I am aware, no-one has tried digging there. The sough must be only a few feet below the Long Tor Mine workings on that vein so one would expect a serious collapse there - yet the thermal water still issues.

The people who's garden you cross to reach 'top' are very loathe to allow ANY access a) due to privacy issues,
b) having been scared by tales of horrific collape and certain doom / insurance claims by a kind neighbour.!!
Ric'

Are we talking about the same mine here?? Long Tor Top Mine is found by the fine old PDMHS tradition of blundering around on precipitous, heavily-wooded slopes, having come down from the footpath that runs through the lower part of the Heights. You'd be pushed to describe the area around LTT mine as a garden, even using the term in its loosest sense!

Historytrog - you've got me intrigued now, as this sounds like it definitely might be worth at least an exploratory scrat. Whereabouts is this issue of thermal water in relation to the Long Tor river entrance?

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Adam, I can remember the mineral water factory, we once thought it would make a fine base of operations for PDMHS but sadly things were still in their infancy then..........
It is very near Long Tor as I remember. You can't see properly from Google. We never got the chance to root around behind the old buildings. From memory, when they flattened the buildings, they mounded up the rubble so it now looks deeper than it should from real ground level.

Les

The Long Tor survey will of course be published in my new book “The Matlocks: Mines, Caverns, and Thermal Springs” – if the PDMHS are so inclined. I am still waiting for things to happen in that direction. Its text is now sufficiently rounded out not to require any more research but new stuff still comes up from time to time.

When do you think the book will get published? 🙂

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The publication of my book depends on the PDMHS and the editor. I have been told it will make a loss, even if I do not take any royalties. 2014 has been suggested as a likely date but it largely depends on what the editor wishes to do. Another problem is the horrendously complex maps of veins and mine workings and all the mining titles that are required. I just do not know how to go about getting them drawn into a professional state. Unfortunately, I do not have the artistic talent of John Barnatt.

http://www.wirksworth.org.uk/X442.htm 
The level was on Blackstone Shaft Vein which was one of the two cross veins at the north end of the Long Tor workings as shown on the area plan in our 1976 book Mines and Caverns of Matlock Bath (about page 26 or 27 I think). This indicates the likely site of the sough tail as it just followed the veins east to the river.
It is unlikely to be easy to get access to the coffin level because in the early 1950s the Long Tor mines were explored by Geof Workman and the Matlock Bath Speleological Group (very competent types, as perhaps Sougher would recall) and they did not get into it.

I was refering to the obvious entrance visible in the face of 'long tor' behind the residential properties. beyond streetlight 58746 on google/streetview. 😞
O. G.

Another problem is the horrendously complex maps of veins and mine workings and all the mining titles that are required. I just do not know how to go about getting them drawn into a professional state. Unfortunately, I do not have the artistic talent of John Barnatt.

I am just about to try some software that converts 'picture' files into CAD files which might be of assistance. As would someone well versed in using CAD like myself.

Using the likes of AutoCad or the like would allow the plans to be put together with all the different aspects of the information held in one file but with the ability to display whichever you wish to see. So you could have the ability to switch on or off the visibility of veins, surface features & workings. You can also subdivide all of these to allow very specific displays, so something like: only the cream-cheese vein along with 1865 OS surface data and the mines on the scone horizon. All reproducible nice and clear for publication.

The next step is to transfer it all into 3D CAD which is something I am trying to get enough time to get round with doing, if I can prise enough life from the day-job.

Back to topic...

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If you need someone with a measure of draughtsman's skills to assist in drawing anything up, get in touch - I won't claim to be as good as JB but I can do site plans and maps.

Going back to the Whitakers site, I know where you mean now, and wasn't there a small collapse round that neck of the woods a while back? I seem to remember I've got one of their bottles complete with stopper found when clearing a shaft near Taddington a few years back, must dig in the garage for it!

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This is reminding me of the river side openings close to Long tor but also others from there and along the Parade, visible in the 1960's which have been altered by road widening and wall rebuilding. Sorry, not much use for actually getting in to them now but another reminder of how much there is or at least was in the Matlocks.

I cannot locate the thermal spring at the sough tail relative to the lamppost but it is almost level with the middle of the old buildings of the mineral water factory that stood on the other side of the road and well to the north of the riverside Long Tor Level.

There is little real chance of this coffin gate sough being accessible. Its entrance area would have been silted up by floods on the river, it is likely to be blocked beneath the A6 road, the shaft at the back of the mineral water factory has probably been filled in, and the coffin gate sough is likely to have collapsed where it passes a few feet below the later Long Tor Level on that cross vein at its north end. However, it is an important and extremely interesting level so it would be a real coup to get through.

The Matlock Bath Speleological Group reopened the entrance in Long Tor quarry in 1954 and it is a pity that it got blocked up again.

Sorry for the delay in replying – I have to use the computers in the local library for internet access.

Many thanks for your replies and interesting project ideas. :thumbsup: O. G.

We shouldn't give up on access.
Remember, Youd's level and all the associated workings were only re-discovered fairly recently and quite by chance.
They too went right under the A6.