This has certainly proved to be a productive thread and has raised my enthusiasm for exploring again!

I think there's too much of the "it's been done" attitude knocking around these days which leads people to assume that there aren't any significant discoveries still to be made in the Peak , or that the accessible workings have been thoroughly looked at. There's still masses of potential out there, as Historytrog rightly points out even in an extensively covered area like Matlock Bath there's a lot of leads that haven't been exhaustively followed. Not only that, there are systems that everyone thinks have been fully explored like the Whalf and Crimbo pipes at Knotlow that haven't - there's the third pipe in the system (Nithings pipe) still to get into for starters!

Pick up thy shovel and dig......

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In reply to Sougher, there were several Great Rakes in Matlock Liberty. The east-west rake through Masson Cavern was always known to the miners as Bacon Rake (earlier as Nestus Rake). It was only geologists in the mid-nineteenth century who began calling it Great Rake, a name best avoided by historians as it causes so much confusion. The main vein in the Seven Rakes complex was called the Great Rake, as was High Tor Great Rake. Also Bullacetree or Nether Hagg Vein has the occasional reference as Great Rake.

The Dick Eye Mine on Seven Rakes Great Rake just (50-150 yards) east of Ringing Rake must be built over but the workings would survive. The title northwards was cut off by the dipping lava flow but there would still be an interesting pumping gate somewhere waiting to be rediscovered. It was drained by a waterwheel in the 1760s.

I am not often able to get online so my postings and replies are not prompt – apologies for that.

AR - I entirely agree with your comments, Nellie K used to tell us that she wrote about the mines, soughs, engines etc., to encourage people of a like mind to use her information to follow on from her early explorations, to explore further and expand upon what she had written after she was no longer with us. Considering the number of mines and soughs out there in the Queen's/King's Field i.e. the leadmining area of Northern Derbyshire (a large part of which lies outside the Peak District National Park) we have only just tipped the "iceberg" of discovering what still remains to be discovered and recorded - could I add before it's too late! Remember a lot of remains of mining evidence was destroyed during the fluorspar bonanza of the late 1970s/early 1980's. Trouble was when I first started exploring mines in 1951 there wasn't the records available to search like there are nowadays at local County Record Offices (even less when Nellie K started, she paid a lady to research for her at the Public Records Office, and she often searched uncatalogued documents in solicitors offices at Bakewell and Wirksworth). We were ignorant of a lot of mine and shaft names, also mines were explored by people who were interested purely in caving, and the mines of Matlock Bath and area fitted that catagory, being within easy reach of the nearby industrial towns - not everyone then had their own transport and had to travel by bus or train (both of which types of transport adequately served the Matlock Bath area hence it being so popular). Not a lot of individual cavers recorded their explorations either, clubs did such as "The Orphesus" (based in Derby and Stockport), "Eldon CC" (at Buxton), "Pegasus" (at Nottingham) etc. "Operation Mole Mines Research and Exploration Group" (at Snitterton) issued detailed reports fortnightly, a copy of which went to Derbyshire Stone as it was in the area where they held the mineral rights that we were exploring, another copy was sent to Nellie K and other copies distributed to club members. As the years went by, more people attended University widening their knowledge, and those of us who hadn't, enlarged on our knowledge and learnt about geology, mining history, ways of mining, industrial archeology etc., we found and learnt a mining vocabulary that was common to most metaliferous mining areas of the UK. However, whereas we were free to roam and explore in the early days (once we had sought permission to do so), today's explorers, although better equiped than we were, find access very difficult, insurance has to be taken out and health and safety rules have to be adhered to a lot more strictly than in the past. This possibly deters some would be mine explorers.

I am enjoying reading what has been turned up on this forum and also that of the separate Ringing Rake/Masson sough (Youd's Level) forum. A coming together of a lot of information collected over a long period of time.

If anyone reading this forum wants to partipate but feel that they are beyond heavy digging, and mine exploration, could I suggest another way to help - consult the County Record Offices! Often there are clues tucked away in these old records which can lead to finding long lost mines. There is the Derbyshire Record Office at Matlock, Derbyshire Local Studies Libraries at Matlock and Chesterfield (a lot of leadmining records are here including the Twigg family records), the Derby City Local Studies Library, Irongate, Derby; the Sheffield City Record Office and the John Ryland Library, Manchester, not forgetting the Public Record Office at Kew.

Sadly I live miles away from them so can no longer help, but these days I am tending to become more interested in the names of the miners who worked in the mines, and the merchants who controlled the lead field and the smelters. The only connection to leadmining locally I have is knowing that Southampton shipped out Mendip lead, after it was transported over to Winchester and shipped down the River Itchen (a beautiful chalk trout stream) to Southampton.

It would be quite something to find a "new" bit of mine, however it's a long way to the Peak from Cambridge and modern life doesn't allow much free time 😢

It's a great day out to come up and find something from COPD or similar guidebook and explore. Or even to go along with someone with local knowledge. I enjoy caving but find myself drawn more towards mine exploring and the industrial history side of things.

One of the best days was opting out of a trip to look at Titan (from the bottom - I'm not skilled at SRT yet) as I was feeling a bit off colour, looking for an easy alternative in COPD and ending up on my own in Spinney Level. A much more modest site but packed full of interest. Quite a discovery for me - even though it's well enough known.

There still seems to be plenty of stuff going on from reading the PDMHS newsletters etc. I wonder if exploration has really slowed down or if it's just a perception?

I wouldn't mine helping out with a dig somewhere - I wonder if I could start my own in Cambs.... :lol:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Titan discovered through searching old mining records?

I think it was actually James Hall's Over Engine that was rediscovered through a late 18th-century gentleman's account of his trip into Speedwell and beyond (see Mining History 13:3), but Moose & co.'s pushing of some of the other leads found during the dig through into JH found the bottom of Titan, and they then proceeded to start mining to create the top connection.....

Speaking of archival research, I'm supposed to be doing a training session on that for PDMHS at some point!

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There used to be a wooden structure by the side of the A6, just South of Artist's Corner - could this have been headstocks or, as a friend says, a loading bay of some sort. Could be nothing to do with mining of course. Opposite side of the road to a bridge, long gone, across the river.

This wooden structure was erected in c1912 as part of a chute to take spar from the mines on top of Masson which the spar miners (wrongly) called High Loft. What Thrutch is recalling was indeed the loading bay by the A6 road. Water was run down the chute to help the spar along but this caused much pollution in the river. It must have made the very devil of a noise as the spar came down the enormously long wooden chute. Such schemes and aerial ropeways were very popular for a short time because motor transport was not then able to cope with heavy loads on steep hills. I cover this in my draft book but am using the library computer and so do not have access to that and am speaking from memory. Unfortunately no photograph is known to me of this chute when it was working. If anyone has such a photo I would be delighted to hear from them.

Historyt' do you know of any documentatiion of the chute?
or its full extent at the upper end?
i have great interest being in Mat'-Bath
Regards,Ric'( Owd Git.)

I shall get back to my own computer and copy off a newspaper article about the chute and try to post it on here tomorrow if I can get into the library again. Sorry for the delay. I do not recollect any other source of information on it. At a similar time there was also a project to have an aerial ropeway from the mines on Slit Rake on top of High Tor but it seems that nothing was done about that.

I met a man at the weekend who had been one of the 1950's explorers and who had some interesting stories to tell. Those mines, Lovers Walks to Station Quary were mentioned - a level (levels?) upstream of Jubilee Bridge, with flooded workings extending downwards. I gave him details of this site and hope that he joins in this discussion.

In response to the query by Owd Git, I have extracted the following from the draft of my book. It has already been published on page 69 of The Calendar of the Barmasters’ Derbyshire Lead Mining Records belonging to the Duchy of Lancaster and kept at Chatsworth House (by Roger Flindall).

The Matlock Guardian newspaper of 28 Jan 1911 p4c6 gives an account of the chute from High Loft Mine on top of Masson:
“a launder-like contrivance down the precipitous quarry side at Long Tor, in the Dale Road, … is unique in Derbyshire. The launder runs from a mine on Masson, and with a supply of water running down it into the Derwent, there is brought down fluor spar, etc., for shipment. It is said by this means as much as 20 tons a day can be brought down automatically, and as the stuff is washed en route this makes it worth so much more per ton.”

There were complaints about discolouration of the river caused by the wastewater from the chute. However, it was apparently still in use during 1917.

It is about 800 yards from the mine shaft to the roadside. Perhaps the chute only ran down the steep hillside beyond the fields (but it would have been very difficult otherwise to transport the spar down the steep fields). This would reduce its length to less than 200 yards and it would still have been a massive construction. Can anyone supply any further details? Any memories of the higher parts of the chute still standing?? Until 1913, High Loft Mine was being worked by the Matlock Mines Company, but it then reverted to Louis Pearson. The Pearson family continued to work there until the 1970s. Have any of their records survived??

There is also the problem of where the water supply was obtained on top of Masson as it must have taken quite a substantial amount of water to run the spar down the chute. It would have been difficult to raise much water in barrels out of High Loft Shaft.

Louis Pearson may still be around - apparently a few years back he saw Terry Worthington and Tony Wood setting up a tripod over one on the shafts (they were doing some work for the Heights and needed to get stuff in and out of Masson), he wandered over and told them exactly where to put the tripod to get the kibble dropping without catching the shaft sides!

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AR - I'm emailing separately over the weekend (promise!!) as Lewis Pearson is still alive.

Historytrog - A slight correction, it was Guy Pearson, Lewis's father who worked High Loft originally. When I first met them (1951) they were spar mining together at Black Ox in Masson. Incidently Guy served for many years as a Juryman on the Barmote Court of the Soke and Wapentake of Wirksworth,and there is a lovely photograph in the Bonsall Book (p.225) of the Barmote Court Jurymen in Cawdor Quarry settling a claim, Guy can be seen on the back row, second from the left. Whilst I was compiling Chapter 10, pp 217 -254 (along with another caver) for this book, my Bonsall spar mining friend who worked Moss Rake for many years (not Lewis this time) loaned me a lot of photographs taken of the opencast spar work at Low Mine (the most westwardly - to use a Barmasters expression - end of Bacon Rake) when it was worked in the 1950's, these photographs (along with others) can be seen between pages 241- 245. As the history of leadmining and the industrial archaeology associated with it is such a vast subject, we were only able to skim the surface of information available for the Bonsall area, which in turn because of the shallowness of the majority of the mines lying within Bonsall mining liberty is connected with the history of the Matlock region, Snitterton, Wensley, Winster, Elton etc., because Bonsall miners worked in these areas, in fact (from memory) a lot of Bonsall miners in the 18th century went to live in Ashover. Lead miners from other Derbyshire villages such as Youlgreave also migrated to Flintshire and other Welsh lead mining regions in the 18th century, for anyone interested there have been a few articles written upon this subject.

Sougher - I am perfectly correct in what I stated and have gone to the trouble of checking the barmaster's records to verify this.

We are talking about the 1913 period when the chute was in use in the High Loft area and it was Louis Pearson (note the spelling) who was involved with the mines then. In 1919, Clara Ann Pearson transferred her share of High Loft Mine to Louis. He was also active round the Matlock mines in the 1890s when he was a colour manufacturer.

You are thinking of a much later generation of the Pearson family who worked the mines in the 1940s/50s.

Re. the chute near Artist's Corner - I was talking with someone last night who remembers a "narrow gauge railway" at the same location, or very near it, in the 1950s. Could be part of same structure, a later means of getting the ore down or ------- ?
The source of the water supply for the chute has to be a mystery (so far!) but how did the water get from one side of the main road to the other to pollute the river?
Amazing how much mining was going on at the same time and in the same place as the tourist industry.

I do not have any information about a miniature railway for the Artists Corner chute but my knowledge of the 1950s is very sketchy. Sougher would be better placed to comment about this – or of course Lewis Pearson himself.

The late Nellie Kirkham had an excellent knowledge about this area. After I published some stuff on the Masson Hill mines during the 1970s, she sent detailed notes extracted from her records about High Loft &c. during the mid-twentieth century, including much about the Pearson’s activities there extracted from her record books. However, she did not mention the chute in these.

Many thanks for a most interesting and informative thread.Some years have passed, I hope you are all keeping well.
I am particularly interested in Bullace tree mine. I was born at Willersley Nurseries in 1954 and remember watching Riber Mine in operation in 1959 as a young pupil at starkholmes school. The various shafts around willersley were of great interest and I will never forget the first time I dropped a stone (sorry!) down the large shaft at grid reference 304574 halfway down the track to Steeples farm. The boom was awesome indicating deep water and substantial size, I never heard the like of it since. Another time motorcycling in the woods on the opposite side of the road to the large hummock of the capped shaft beside starkholmes road the ground fell away under the wheels as a small diameter ventilation shaft was exposed prsumably part of the moletrap vein. That shaft always appeared to be very deep for the area, we estimated over 100 ft using schoolboy physics. We also explored many of the mines I remember seeing a small lake and remains of a boat in the workings beside willersley tunnel near Matlock Bath station.

In reply to kurnal, Sougher who contributed to this thread, has since unfortunately died, a great loss of knowledge and experience.

After a great struggle, I have managed to piece together a reasonable history of Bullestree Mine, which forms Chapter 13 of my Matlock Book. I passed a draft of the book to the PDMHS editor for evaluation last October and he seems very positive about it. Since then, I have been frantically adding more oddments that keep surfacing. Two weeks ago, I was at Nether Hagg entrance by the river looking at the geography and trying to decide if there really were underground waterwheels there but didn’t make much progress.
The shaft on the west side of Willersley Lane mentioned by kurnal was probably part of the Fillpurse Title, which is all fenced off nowadays.