Morlock
15 years ago
Most of Brum industry has gone the same way. :curse:
toadstone
15 years ago
It is just one of many examples of how we are losing our industrial heritage and along with it expertise and manual skills which I'm sure that in the future will come back to haunt us as a nation.

The original company that became The Butterly Ironworks was in fact Benjamin Outram & Company, founded by Benjamin Outram and Francis Beresford who purchased the Butterley Hall Estate in 1790.

I am surprised that not more of the site is protected. A friend of mine who was born in Heage tells me that during WWII in common with many industrial sites, the whole factory was camouflaged for obvious reasons. Stories also abound of certain artifacts being too big to move were just bricked up, it will be interesting to see if these stories are fact or fiction. Of course they might have been moved during the interim time.

As has been pointed out the works were indeed one of the foremost of its kind in the UK. Apart from the most recent spectacular Falkirk Wheel they were also responsible for much of the original ironwork that is St Pancras Station in London. Dave Kitching has an excellent tribute to Benjamin Outram on his web site http://www.brocross.com/iwps/pages/outram/bn-outram.htm 

ICLOK
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15 years ago
I'm off in a few mins avec camera to see how far the trashing has got... its only 3 mins drive... I thinks as John said there is major justification to save the countries once premier iron works so looks like a morning spent on the phone on Monday... I knew some of the younger CAD draughtsmen there but have lost touch with them... so cannot even ask them.
Did you know the works had its own underground loading dock on the Cromford Canal tunnel? I explored from the west end in in my much younger days but never got that far as water was deep and the silt got stupid to walk thru... but some one got right up to the loading dock etc from the West Entrance on a canoe and went into some of the intersecting bits... its a cracking tunnel and very long at over 3000 yards but is blocked at one point. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tina.cordon/Butterley%20Tunnel%20Survey.pdf 
I'll put a plan up when I get back tonight as I have an appointment with an Ironstone mine in Lincs πŸ˜‰
EDIT make that a Dodgy Ironstone mine :blink:
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!
toadstone
15 years ago
"ICLOK" wrote:

snip
Did you know the works had its own underground loading dock on the Cromford Canal tunnel? I explored from the west end in in my much younger days but never got that far as water was deep and the silt got stupid to walk thru... but some one got right up to the loading dock etc from the West Entrance on a canoe and went into some of the intersecting bits... its a cracking tunnel and very long at over 3000 yards but is blocked at one point. snip



That confirms what Ted told me.

I'm not knowledgeable enough to say whether this was the first example of an integrated transport system to bring in raw materials and then take out finished product but there are other examples around the UK canal system. One that I am familiar with is the canal terminus at the Murray Mills near Great Ancoats Street in Manchester (you can see the bricked up entrance on the canal side at the junction of Bengal and Redhill Street) which brought in coal and raw cotton and took linen products etc out.
JohnnearCfon
15 years ago
"JohnnearCfon" wrote:

"ICLOK" wrote:

I just found out only the Octagonal gatehouse and one small building within are listed... grade II .... ooooh dear...



Might be worth contacting the local authority/English Hysterior to find out why the others weren't listed and could they be?



At the risk of "trying to teach grandmother (or in this case grandfather?) to suck eggs" may I add some recollections from my involment in getting Coedyparc listed.

This was started when McAlpines were proposing to clear most of the site. I discussed it with a friend in Bethesda and we both thought initial contact would be better coming from him as he was local (I lived in London then). I did subsequently have communications with the CADW inspector to clarify a couple of points, give him additional information, and point out he had missed something important in his inspection.

My friend wrote to Gwynedd CC in the first instance. They immediately put a 6 month temporary preservation order on the entire site. This enabled CADW to make the neccecary inspections, reports, and decision.

I think it is good that you are local. If I can suggest that you try and get the CC to put such a temporary preservation order on the site. I assume the procedure is still the same. Try and give CC as much background information as you can, as they say, bullshit baffles brains.

Good luck.
hymac580c
15 years ago
Something else that is worth saving if they are just lying about waiting to be burned are old documents, plans and possibly works diaries etc. Unless they have already been saved or perhaps destroyed.
When the company I work for was taken over some years ago I saved the works diaries from 1957 to 1997 which recorded the day to day running of the depot. They were going to be burned along with some other documents.
We scanned about 150 old photos and I have put some of them on youtube in 2 films -



Try and save what you can before all is destroyed.



Bellach dim ond swn y gwynt yn chwibian, lle bu gynt yr engan ar cynion yn tincian.
Brakeman
15 years ago
Thanks for the link to the Butterley tunnel ICLOCK, a very interesting article that, wouldn't mine photographing that my self one day.
The management thanks you for your co operation.
Morlock
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15 years ago
The scrapmen are now well into the place.. this was AM today.... The heavy fab shop shop well on its way to oblivion with the torn down Nth end cranes awaiting cutting... more pics added to album also...
πŸ”—Butterley-Ironworks-Smelt-Mill-User-Album-Image-43675[linkphoto]Butterley-Ironworks-Smelt-Mill-User-Album-Image-43675[/linkphoto][/link]
πŸ”—Butterley-Ironworks-Smelt-Mill-User-Album-Image-43671[linkphoto]Butterley-Ironworks-Smelt-Mill-User-Album-Image-43671[/linkphoto][/link]
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!
ICLOK
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15 years ago
Some good news... I finally got in touch with the right person at Amber Valley and had a pleasant discussion re the site. I am optimistic this is being dealt with. They are aware of the two listed buildings on site and believe that the other building are safe as they are part of the context of the surrounding site being pre 1948. They believe that plans have been made for conservation & to retain all the stone buildings but will confirm this in due course.

The furnace bank is being looked at by English Heritage with a view to its conservation.

The site looks set for housing and not industrial use but as long as the buildings and furnace bank are saved I will be happy. πŸ™‚
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!
JohnnearCfon
15 years ago
Good news indeed!!!
ICLOK
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15 years ago
Amber Valley have officially responded to my enquiry on the site is as below.... must admit they seem quite with it...

Dear Mr xxxxxxxxx

XXX xxxxxx has asked me to reply to your e-mail as I have previously
been involved with the Butterley Site. I can confirm that the Borough
Council is of the opinion that any building on the site that was built
before 1948 are considered to be curtilage buildings which means Listed
Building Consent would be required for their demolition or alteration
that affects their character/appearance.

I hope this clarifies the position, however if you require further
clarification, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Kind Regards
XXXX XXXXXXX
Principal Community Planning Officer.


I am off today to see how things stand and if poss see if I can wangle me way on site... πŸ˜‰
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!
JohnnearCfon
15 years ago
I really hope the developers know that! It would be a shame if they demolished a few things and then said "Oh, we thought it was only those that were listed"

Now I seem to have confirmed what Carnkie said about me, I am a cynic!
ICLOK
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15 years ago
Well I better make sure they do then.... πŸ™‚
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!
ICLOK
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15 years ago
Demolition and scrapping has started on the Southern range of workshops...
πŸ”—Butterley-Ironworks-Smelt-Mill-User-Album-Image-43872[linkphoto]Butterley-Ironworks-Smelt-Mill-User-Album-Image-43872[/linkphoto][/link]

Note the road on the RH side, this was the rail link to the upper works yard, housing on the site can just be made out.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!
sougher
15 years ago
Ickok - Keep up the good work in saving what you can on the Butterley site, it really is a very important industrial archaeology site. It was lucky you happened to be driving past the site at the start of demolition and managed to contact Derbyshire County Council and Amber Valley District Council as you did, who I hope are going to keep an eye on what is happening. Too many people watch demolition (often without planning consent) of important industrial archaeology sites, sit back and do nothing, and then complain afterwards when it is too late. More people need to object when planning applications are applied for (that is if they are) or if they see activity on dormant sites. It only needs one or two people to set the ball in motion for what is happening to be investigated, one doesn't have to belong to a protest group.

Below is a quote from "Industrial Archaeology of Derbyshire" by Frank Nixon published 1969 by David & Charles, Newton Abbot: pp. 59-60.

"In 1829 the coke smelting process was improved greatly by Neilson's invention of the hot-blast. The Butterley Company was quick to adopt this, as shown by a letter of 18 June 1835 from Mr. Joseph Glynn to the editor of the "Mechanics Magazine" - 'The Butterley Company employ in their mines, coal fields, blast-furnances, rolling mills, forges, boring-mills, and steam engine manufactory, 35 steam-engines of all sizes, from 80 inches diameter of cylinder, and have six blast-furnaces, of which four are now in work. The whole of these furnaces are blown with heated air....' According to Ure, hot blast increased the output of each furnace from 29 tons per week to 49 tons per week and required less than half as much coal per ton. In 1966 a bank of ruins of these furnaces still stood alongside the recently demolished Codnor Park puddling and rolling mills. They must have been an imposing sight, as the furnaces proper surmouted the present embankment by another 40 ft or so.

An impetus had been given to the production of iron by Henry Cort's invention, in 1783-4, of a method of producing wrought iron direct from cast iron by puddling and rolling. (n.b. I live just a stone's throw away from Henry Cort's iron mill at Tichfield, Hampshire, where he invented this process - unfortunately Hampshire County Council and Fareham Urban District Council don't publicise Henry Cort and this important site very well at all). The Codnor Park works of Butterley, established in 1807-11, became an important supplier of wrought iron, and continued in this field until June 1965. Latterly it produced rod for anchor chains for floating harbours, ships, and lightships, the corrosion resistance of high-quality wrought iron having an advantage over steel. Fortunately it was possible in 1964 to take a colour film of the whole process; this is now in the possession of the Industrial Museum, Birmingham.

As the puddling process depends upon manual effort, it is not normally possible to produce a bloom of more than about 100 lb weight. In 1861 Sir John Alleyne of the Butterley Company invented an improved means of handling plate and bar through the rolls, and in 1862 he invented a method of forge-welding together a number of billets. The Derby Red Book of 1863 reported that Butterley was rolling 'the largest masses of iron yet made'. These included the beam for a pumping engine for the Clay Cross Company, comprising two slabs each 34 ft long x 7 ft in the middle, 3 ft 6 in(ches) at the ends, 2 and a quarter inches thick, and weighing about 7 tons. Alleyne's technique made possible the erection of ambitious structures, the most impressive of which is the roof of St. Pancras station. This has a free span of 240 ft, which at the time of its erection, 1867, was the largest in the world. The iron girders were made by riveting sections together; a visual estimate of size of the biggest members suggests that they weigh about 700 lb, and before trimming probably nearly half a ton. On some of them can be seen what may be indications of the weld line. And where the black/brown paint is chipped can be seen traces of the sky-blue paint which must have made the station a striking sight when the roof was first erected. The total weight of ironwork in the St. Pancras roof is 6,894 tons, and the roof covers an area of 4 and a half acres.

In 1827, the Butterley Company was employing nearly 1,500 men. This whole period is characterised by the energy shown in the enterprises. For example, in 1862 Barrow of Staveley produced 400 tons of girders in three months for the London Exhibition Building of that year. Consequently, with Bessemer's invention of his converter for steel-making, in 1856, cheap steel and large rolled-steel sections became available, and the use of wrought iron declined rapidly."

p.s. Are you by chance turning into a Yogurt Knitter! :devil:
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15 years ago
Very good post that... thanks, See my other post re today... hilarious... If I was a yoghurt knitter I'd be defending those poor lads from under privlaged backgrounds... etc :zzz: :lol:

I met the guy the council used to photograph the site for posterity (he is joining aditnow and has loads of local stuff... Given the local interest I don't think there was any chance it was gonna get pulled down without someone noticing... for my part I just made sure the authorities knew what was going on with the site and checked the buildings were being saved.... As I keep saying I am pleased with amber Valley's approach which.. touch wood... has been proactive.

It is nice to know the locals around here appreciate what they are losing and are prepared to record it. :thumbsup:


Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!
sougher
15 years ago
Knowing you have a far more extensive library than I have, have you got a copy of "Transformation of a Valley - The Derbyshire Derwent" text by Brian Cooper, photographs by Neville Cooper, printed by Scarthin Books 1991? Under Ripley in the index, there are 27 pages given as referring to the Butterley Company Ironworks. Very interesting and far too much information for me to type up onto AN for you. The book also gives a five page bibliography of books and articles consulted when writing the book, one that might interest you being an article "The Butterley Company and Railway Construction 1790-1830" by Philip Riden which appeared in "Transport History", vol. 6. no. 1 (March, 1973).

I didn't know that Butterley supplied all the ironwork for the Cromford and High Peak Railway, also engines as well. The more I read about it the more I realise what a big firm it was.

You might not hear from me again today, as I've off to cook lunch and awaiting grandson No. 5 to arrive any minute, which means I lose the use of my p.c. whilst he's here. What one does for kids!!
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15 years ago
I know that a Messerschmitt BF109 was in there during the war, I never knew of it being moved, so we'll see what appears. I never got inside the powerhouse, it was horrible to see that generator being scrapped.
ICLOK
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15 years ago
Am going down on Monday to see if I can blag a trip round the remaining site.... 😎
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!

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