'The Cavers Cap Lamp'

http://www.caverslamp.com 

Found it via that eBay auction for a pile of Oldham bits and bobs. Apparently made in Germany by KSE Lights.

Funny looking, but all self contained, light and battery in one unit.

http://www.kse-lights.com/en_products03.php 

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Protector have been importing these into the UK, and a couple of people I know use them. They are fine for shorter stretches underground, especially if you don't like trailing cables anywhere on your person. Light levels are comparable with other LED lights on the market, although obviously, the smaller battery size means less working time per charge.

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Can anyone, er, cast any light on whether it's possible to translate lux to lumens? I don't think it is, so it's a bit difficult to compare this to anything else!

I must admit to being very sceptical about the concept of a rechargeable lamp with a self-contained battery - one it fails or the battery runs down, it's gone for good. The advantage of something like the Sten (or indeed any Silva/Petzl/etc.) is that at least you can carry spare batteries and pop them in.

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I've not seen the multi-emitter unit in action, but I have seen the single emitter version, and the user is a working mine surveyor. I think where they are used professionally, they carry a second lamp with them, so if the first lamp goes, you take it off and just slot the second one in...

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Can anyone, er, cast any light on whether it's possible to translate lux to lumens? I don't think it is, so it's a bit difficult to compare this to anything else!

It's been a few years since my lighting course, but try this for starters:-




http://www.theledlight.com/lumens.html 
:smartass:

Seen & tested together with a few similar lamps.

There're several different KSe around to suit different applications. Altough being top of the range the 7700 or 7710 would probably be best choice for light. The 7710 has a booster mode.

A good alternative is the DULA All-in-One supplied by Durstmuller in Austria. These have the same lightoutput as the KSE but are chargeable on an Oldham charger and the bezel can be unscrewed on the latest version. It also has a proper switch. This lamp is more like an Oldham headpiece.

These lamps are used with no backup light in the mines. They are a full substitute for an Oldham or whatever other product was used before. They cope well with the conditions and are a big relief for anybody who has to carry a big OSR and a lamp as they safe about 2kg of weight. They're also much better for driving around with FSVs.

Prices:
KSE ranging from £80 - 130
DULA £80 -£100

Thanks AdM Michael. Were you by any chance the chap who had a long chat with us about professional use of lamps at Hidden Earth recently (Excellent Stuff stand)?

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I guess I am.

I don't know if I'm also the surveyor mentioned earlier. Because there're two of us using these or similar lamps.

They look like a useful lamp if you're just walking around, it would worry me for srt/climbing that if you managed to knock it and dislodge it from its bracket then its gone and not tethered by its battery most lamps are.

If I had one I'd have a leash on it!!

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KSe actually supplies a lanyard to secure it to the back of your helmet and it won't be a problem with the latest DULA one either. You'll just have to get the lanyard yourself.

Check for the KS-5050 safety band which replaces your normal cable but will require a belt as anchor point.

Alternatively jus get a short length of lanyard to the back of your helmet. There certainly is an attachement point on most of these lamps. We've been through all this during our tests at the mine.

I am importing them into the UK, if anyone is interested. They only cost £65 inc vat and postage. I've used one for some time and have been very impressed. Did a Derbyshire mine last night and it was very refreshing not to keep having to shift a battery round or stop cable being snagged. Go to www.caverslamp.com

If the Derbyshire mine in question was Clatterway level, I was there and saw them in use - the multi-LED version gives a decent light, although I didn't look too closely at how much spot and how much spill they give compared to a single LED unit.

Michael, I assume it is you I referred to earlier - see you in Devonshire next week, perhaps?

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Yes - Clatterway. I was one of those that free climbed out the shaft so completing the through trip. The light to my mind is quite similar to Oldhams in giving a good spot, but is much whiter than that, and took some getting used to.

Don't know about Devonshire - been there too often.

I was one of the other banana suited attendees on the trip.

I have been supplying these to cavers for about 3 years in Wales. I have KSE 7610 and KSE 6000 unist available.

They work well ( up to 14 hours on normal main beam ) and provide more than enough light for normal use

Can anyone, er, cast any light on whether it's possible to translate lux to lumens? I don't think it is, so it's a bit difficult to compare this to anything else!

From Wiki:
Differences between lumens and lux
The difference between the units lumen and lux is that the lux takes into account the area over which the luminous flux is spread. A flux of 1000 lumens, concentrated into an area of one square metre, lights up that square metre with an illuminance of 1000 lux. The same 1000 lumens, spread out over ten square metres, produces a dimmer illuminance of only 100 lux. Mathematically, 1 lx = 1 lm/m2.

A single fluorescent light fixture with an output of 12000 lumens might light a residential kitchen with an illuminance of 500 lux. To light a factory floor with area dozens of times that of the kitchen would require dozens of such fixtures. Lighting a larger area to the same level of lux requires a greater number of lumens.
ENDS

To add to the confusion, if the above fluorescent fitting could somehow be converted so as to throw a precise beam, then the equation would go in the other direction, but this would be relative to the distance from the light source

As far as lamps go, I repeat what is on my ledcaplamps, dont buy anything unless you have seen it perform underground.

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I've been aware of these for a while. When I first looked at one of the spec sheets on them, yes made in Germany, but then I looked at the specs for a big charging bank for them, and there was Chinese all over it.

Are they actually being made in Germany or being bought in, as already pointed out, there are lots of these type lamps on Chinese sites, and many look exactly the same.

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I haven't actually seen one of these but as a general comment, I use a caplamp for work on some sites and don't actually worry too much about how much light it actually gives out. It's pretty rare for it to be your sole, or even main, light source anyway.

I've been half-following the various threads about laser-strength caplamps with heat sinks and whatnot and really, I wouldn't worry about that either. I bought a Raptor out of curiosity and yes, it's handy, very light and all but the beam is far too focussed for my liking. I started caving using a Premier 'stinky' with a hand torch as a back-up, I still use a Maglite as a backup. Apart from water and 'burnt fingers' issues I'd still quite happily use a carbide for the light it gives.

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Ah, that's where the hobby use and professional use differs I suspect 😉 Caplamps are generally our primary light source. Disused mines are often quite dark ;)

The pursuit of lumens in a reasonably sized package as per Roy's threads on his Oldham conversions (and others making DIY lamps) I suspect is as much about the individuals enjoyment of the engineering and electronics, so good on anybody with the skills and drive to make their own lamps of that calibre I say!

Rebel 100 Sten for me with a WiseLED Tactical for huge power spotting and a Fenix TK11 in my pocket. And a Petzl e-lite (wash my mouth out I know) as backup 🙂

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I do quite a lot of work underground on my various projects as everyone knows, and the last thing I want is a MagnumStar banging into timbers etc.
Working isn’t like exploring; your mind is on what you’re doing not navigating your way forward through whatever obstacles present themselves.
However, by the same token the damned belt mount long lead is a bigger nuisance, and you get this on standard Oldham’s, never mind the deadweight lead/acid battery.

As a working lamp I would vote for the Stenlight simply because it’s so unobtrusive.
What I do use though in fact, is one of my UniStar lamps with helmet mount cell. Bigger and heavier than a Sten, but I don’t really notice it, too busy banging timbers in etc!

Horses for courses?

At the end of the day people vote with their cheque books.

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I haven't actually seen one of these but as a general comment, I use a caplamp for work on some sites and don't actually worry too much about how much light it actually gives out. It's pretty rare for it to be your sole, or even main, light source anyway.

I've been half-following the various threads about laser-strength caplamps with heat sinks and whatnot and really, I wouldn't worry about that either. I bought a Raptor out of curiosity and yes, it's handy, very light and all but the beam is far too focussed for my liking. I started caving using a Premier 'stinky' with a hand torch as a back-up, I still use a Maglite as a backup. Apart from water and 'burnt fingers' issues I'd still quite happily use a carbide for the light it gives.

Have you tried lighting up that premier lamp you showed me a while back? Does it still work?