A little bit of a sensationalist headlne from the BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/7421212.stm 

Eleven old and dormant quarries in the Brecon Beacons National Park have been sealed off to prevent them from reopening.

Officials revoked planning permission for the sites after the Welsh Assembly Government gave the go-ahead.

The park said in some cases the quarries had not been worked for decades and there was no indication their owners intended to reopen them.

However, planning permission is not due expire at the sites until 2042. Park officials felt this meant there was a danger the quarries could reopen for business.

During the past nine months, Brecon Beacons National Park Authority has submitted prohibition orders to the Welsh Assembly Government in order to revoke the rights to reopen the 11 quarries.

Park officer Ruth Brown said: "Planning permissions for quarrying generally don't expire until 2042 unless an earlier date is specifically stated.

"For us there is always a danger that these old quarries, most of which have mellowed into the landscape over time, could be reopened at any time if the operator applies for the approval of modern planning conditions.

"So, we are really very pleased to see these prohibition orders successfully confirmed by the Welsh Assembly Government."
Park authority chief executive Chris Gledhill added: "The official closure of these 11 quarries is not only good news for the landscape of the park, but also for the wildlife which has colonised these long-disused sites, and for the public at those sites which have public access or are visible from rights of way."

It's nice to see the Park Authority acting to prevent the possibility of people getting jobs in the future if someone wished to reopen one of the quarries...

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rediculous really!

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It's nice to see the Park Authority acting to prevent the possibility of people getting jobs in the future if someone wished to reopen one of the quarries...

What is the probability, in your opinion, of any of them reopening? Is it bit like the reopening the tin mines discussion down these parts?

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I was in Darranfelen Crossing Quarry in the Clydach Gorge a couple of months back and noticed a sign to the effect of revoking planning permission, from the park authority posted on a signpost.

This one is not too likely to re-open - access is difficult and someone has built a number of houses just back from the upper lip of the quarry face.

Not too much to see for the explorer either (except a Renault Clio insurance job)
:lol:

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What is the probability, in your opinion, of any of them reopening? Is it bit like the reopening the tin mines discussion down these parts?

Well... in reality, it's a very small chance. Hence, I slightly fail to see the justification for canceling the planning consents: if it's unlikely to happen, then why bother preventing it?

I see it as a bit of an unfair wielding of power by an unelected quango: they are detracting from the value of the quarries to their owners, presumably without compensation.

If the quarry owners had decided, in ten years' time, to generate revenue from their asset then they had a valid consent to do so.

Now, if they wish to do so, they no longer have a consent and what's more, the Park Authority are highly unlikely to give their consent. Thus, the Authority has potentially caused financial harm to the quarry owners.

In simple terms, this is yet another example of an unelected body (be it a National Park Authority, English Nature or CCW, or any other) deciding that their opinion of what should happen with an area is more important than the livelihoods of the people who live there.

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Thanks. I'm inclined to agree with the points you have made.

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SNIP

In simple terms, this is yet another example of an unelected body (be it a National Park Authority, English Nature or CCW, or any other) deciding that their opinion of what should happen with an area is more important than the livelihoods of the people who live there.

Couldn't agree more, as I keep on saying "We can't all be rangers, cafe owners or run yoga classes in village halls" and by saying that I'm not decrying said occupations. It is easily forgotten that many of the quaint hamlets and villages that now support a very lucrative property market and are the focus of many 'parks', were born out of misery, low wages and a need to put food on the table. Mining, quarrying, spinning and weaving.

I fully accept its not an easy path but there are times (increasingly) where such so called 'authorities' go beyond what is reasonable or acceptable.

What is needed is someone to find a commercial lode of lead or copper and see how they would deal with that.

Rant made off

:oops: Peter.

The Bottom Line is: the people who live in an area should be those who make decisions for that area, unless their ideas are going to be excesively damaging to the landscape.

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Come on Vanoord, get your sense of perspective right!

Surely anyone can see, it is far more important to preserve the habitat of the lesser spotted smaller crested newt, the long billed yellow warbler, the barmy owl, not forgetting the mute song thrush. To say nothing of adding to the horrendous scars on the landscape caused by such mining and quarrying activities. What is the comparison with the slight possibilty that a few yokals with grass in their mouths might be able to eek out a pittance at some time in the future.

The preseravtion of the local landscape for the benefit of the Ramblers, painters, and general tourists is of far more importance (except, of course, when it comes to planting giant, useless windmills).

You should be ashamed of yourself for suggesting otherwise.

Many people whom I know working for the National park seem to have their own ideas of how things should be done inmaterial of whether it effects present or future work.
Wales in general needs more 'real work' jobs and not minimum wage rates tourist/seasonal work. That is why the Welsh have been leaving for generations to find a better job and life. Although the tourist industry is an important contribution to the wealth of the country in general. And these beurocrats in the national parks are not helping by creating rediculous regulations and restrictions. I cannot say I know much about the quarries around Brecon, but quarries/mines have been working and closing intermitently everywhere and the national park seems to want to stop it for future generations.
Well, one has to have a bit of a rant on national parks every so often dont we.

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Come on Vanoord, get your sense of perspective right!

Surely anyone can see, it is far more important to preserve the habitat of the lesser spotted smaller crested newt, the long billed yellow warbler, the barmy owl, not forgetting the mute song thrush. To say nothing of adding to the horrendous scars on the landscape caused by such mining and quarrying activities. What is the comparison with the slight possibilty that a few yokals with grass in their mouths might be able to eek out a pittance at some time in the future.

The preseravtion of the local landscape for the benefit of the Ramblers, painters, and general tourists is of far more importance (except, of course, when it comes to planting giant, useless windmills).

You should be ashamed of yourself for suggesting otherwise.

So sensible ecology goes out the window. Let's face it mining in most areas has gone out of the window. I'm not saying we forget it, far from it, or the women and children who worked and died in the process and every effort should be made to sustain their heritage but within limits. This has all the hallmarks of one of those discussions that become polarized right at the beginning. I quite like owls and lesser spotted newts. I agree about the windmills.

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I rather think you missed the fact that all of what I said was "tongue in cheek" (look carefully at the breeds I chose). I think the point Vanoord was making, and with which I agree, is there should be a sense of balance. Which I think is far from the case in the decision made in Brecons.

Personaly I don't think it has nothing to do with wildlife etc as they can look after themselves and can adapt to different conditions. I enjoy rambling as a hobby myself. As for children and women working in mines, they worked in most industries and at home in the long lost days of old. But they still work in China and India I am told.
But I think certain individuals working at national parks like to show their authority in perhaps an inbalanced way.
When I go rambling on the hills and mountains I like to see the mountains as well as the industrial archeoegy of the old buildings and quarry workings etc.
To me the slate tips in Wales and Cumbria are as the pyramyds are to the arabs. To some people the pyramyds are merely a pile of old stones in the sand. Just depends on your background and interests and of course attitude.
😉

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I rather think you missed the fact that all of what I said was "tongue in cheek" (look carefully at the breeds I chose). I think the point Vanoord was making, and with which I agree, is there should be a sense of balance. Which I think is far from the case in the decision made in Brecons.

I did realise it was 'tongue in cheek' it was just that my reply was rather badly written. Sorry about that. Essentially I agree with what you and Vanoord are saying. If there is very little chance of mining restarting then there seems little point in disturbing the status quo.

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As for children and women working in mines, they worked in most industries and at home in the long lost days of old. But they still work in China and India I am told.

Try Bolivia as well. I believe 13,500 chidren and adolescents work down the mines. It reads like 19th century Britain.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=30525 

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I'm totally off-topic, but here goes...

The odd thing here is that with improved Health & Safety in the UK, coupled with an increasing viewpoint that 'traditional' manual jobs are not considered 'worthy' of our use any more (viz the demand for 50% of children to go to university), we're importing more and more products such as slate, bricks and other such materials.

These were originally too heavy to make transporting them halfway round the world (eg Chinese slate), but the price differential now means that this has become economic.

This is, basically the result of cheaper overheads and appalling working conditions in the exporting countries with a lack of safety systems which add significant costs to home-grown products.

The result of our drive for better working conditions has certainly been an improvement for workers in the UK. Unfortunately, due to the huge costs, we've made it uneconomic to undertake most mining here and thus the very people we were trying to help are now jobless.

To add to the woes, we've also managed to create huge demand in far foreign lands where conditions are far worse than we were dealing with here and due to our demands, a lot more people are working in terrible conditions.

Yet another example of short-sighted thinking - and a complete lack of joined-up thinking.

Of course, the answer would be import tariffs, which would prevent Chinese slate being economically competitive and we'd still have some industry left, with better-paid workers operating in relatively good conditions. We'd have to pay a bit more, mind.

But apparently import tariffs are a bad thing because they disadvantage foreign workers - obviously we should be supporting them and paying unemployment benefit to those UK workers who've lost their jobs due to unfair competition from abroad... ::)

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I specifically advise on import tariffs for a living.

Slate from China incurs Customs (import) Duty of 1.7% plus VAT of 17.5%.

1.7% plus shipping costs still makes Chinese slate substantially cheaper than "proper" slate

Not to mention SPanish slate which pays no import duty ( EU member state) and various other "developing" countries which again pay no import duty to encourage their development.

Until 2 years ago Chinese slate also incurred no import duty.

:guns:

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1.7% + VAT would be about 2%, or to put it another way, one slate in every 50: not much use, other than covering the costs of running the Customs outfit...

Is it any wonder we have little indigenous industry left..?

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VAT payable on total value of import not just the duty BUT...

the VAT will be fully recoverable so just 1.7% then.

As you say, no wonder British industry is becoming virtually just a memory .

(I don't work for HMRC , rather shamfully I advise importers how to avoid the duty making imports even cheaper)
:devil: :thumbdown:

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And importing Portugese granite to Cornwall. Talk about coals to Newcastle.

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