Hello green John might I ask who of this site shows them around , your comment is very interesting, if you would rather pm me feel free to go ahead but I am sure we are all itching to hear these names in the open . Thanks

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It's a good question John, here's hoping I'm not on the path to ostracision (any more than already :lol: ).

Admittedly the line, in my opinion, is a fairly blurred one. As someone who does make the odd video (it's not the main focus of my channel) it's a line I attempt to walk on occasion. My general rules are to avoid showing entrances or naming sites and only publishing videos of sites with no access issues.

Here's my take -

YT videos can have some negatives. Sensitive locations revealed, landowners upset, access lost, increased traffic, conservation problems underground. Public perception of it being a dangerous irresponsible activity.

However there can also be positives. Promoting an interest and appreciation of these places, showing responsible exploring etc.

If we retreat into our private world keep our photos and videos to ourselves and mutter disapprovingly in to our beards the only perspective the wider public will have is that provided by the sort of group that prompted this thread.

Just my view and I'm open to being persuaded otherwise.

I seem to remember attempts have been made to contact these folk and persuade them to wear helmets etc. without much luck.

Hello green John might I ask who of this site shows them around , your comment is very interesting, if you would rather pm me feel free to go ahead but I am sure we are all itching to hear these names in the open . Thanks

I think whoever showed them around Cwmorthin a few months ago was registered on here. To his credit he admitted it was him; it sounded like he'd been fobbed off.

Of course when he saw they had no helmets etc., he should have refused to take them underground, but perhaps that's not the easiest thing to do when four bulky lads in an Audi Q7 are pointing cameras at you?

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Wouldn't it be preferable to keep the hobby more elusive and not care what the general public think?

Hello green John might I ask who of this site shows them around , your comment is very interesting, if you would rather pm me feel free to go ahead but I am sure we are all itching to hear these names in the open . Thanks

I think whoever showed them around Cwmorthin a few months ago was registered on here. To his credit he admitted it was him; it sounded like he'd been fobbed off.

Of course when he saw they had no helmets etc., he should have refused to take them underground, but perhaps that's not the easiest thing to do when four bulky lads in an Audi Q7 are pointing cameras at you?

Hello Simon yes I was just concerned incase it was another member and this had not been pointed out , it was the same member who has been spoken to so no new issues .I understand it’s a very awkward situation he must of faced and I actually have spoken to him personally before and he admitted his mistakes to me and strongly regrets his actions .

Thanks Tom

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Wouldn't it be preferable to keep the hobby more elusive and not care what the general public think?

An interesting question, I think I've probably made my view clear in several posts above, I don't think I have anything to add, will be interested how others answer though.

Wouldn't it be preferable to keep the hobby more elusive and not care what the general public think?

I personally believe this hobby needs new people to join it in Northamptonshire the people around my age 28 who do mine exploring I can count on 2 hands , so my opinion is no it ent a secret what we do is it ? Caving is all over the tv , abandoned mines are not different apart from man made and house some tools , many people come to this site looking for information when buying a house or peace of land to see what once was there , but I don’t agree at all in making profits of videos you can cleary see on a video who enjoys showing there days out to people or who is after making money , some YouTube videos are so good I think they could go on tv it wouldn’t bother me , ppe is a huge factor in this as not taking the correct stuff your increasing the risk of a cave rescue which Is avoidable if your not a point blank idiot .

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Hello green John might I ask who of this site shows them around , your comment is very interesting, if you would rather pm me feel free to go ahead but I am sure we are all itching to hear these names in the open . Thanks

I think whoever showed them around Cwmorthin a few months ago was registered on here. To his credit he admitted it was him; it sounded like he'd been fobbed off.

Of course when he saw they had no helmets etc., he should have refused to take them underground, but perhaps that's not the easiest thing to do when four bulky lads in an Audi Q7 are pointing cameras at you?

Hi Simon it was me who took them down, I'm not going to go through what happened over and over again because I'm pretty ashamed about it.

I was actually originally going to go up to Rhosydd (which they had already been in) but changed my mind for some reason. Possibly something to do with the walk taking too long.

Originally I was going to meet up with one guy and have a look around, he then asked if he can bring his 'friends' and I said sure. I didn't realise it was them until I got there and I'm really bad with any sort of confrontation with people I don't know.

I just explore by myself these days and keep my underground pictures to myself. It's just not worth the Aggro.

Thanks Alex.

Let's draw a line under that one please folks. Not interested in seeing this site used for witch hunts.

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With respect Alex had the choice to see who they were, how they were dressed and what their intentions were and still took them down. Its old history and I get that but there's others on here who have done the same and continue to do the same.

This ewf group (and others) do not find these places themselves and they always have a guide, surely its better to know who these people are so other members have a choice to interact with them or not.

Rather than a witch hunt I would look on it as a helping hand to not make matters worse by giving locations and maps out to the baseball cap and trainer brigade.

Not allowing 'a witch hunt' sort of makes this thread void in that you're allowing these people to carry on showing these YouTubers around which as this thread and others insinuate ultimatley gets locations vandalised and blocked off.

How many of you have helped someone on a thread or via private message with location or entry info without actually knowing who your speaking to? I admit, this is not my first account here, I've been here a long time but life instances changed and I moved on for a while and have only just rejoined and I quite like the anonymity at the moment which goes to show who are we really talking to.

New members will join the hobby through the various avenues they always have done, I suggest YouTube isn't and never should be one of those avenues. Going underground really isn't for the armchair brigade.

Either we allow the behaviour and put up with it or something changes and gets done about it, there can not be a middle ground where we moan about it and they carry on doing as they like.

Ive had my say and made my arguments, I mean no malice to anyone, were all in the same hobby. I will not drag this avenue of discussion out further.

New members will join the hobby through the various avenues they always have done, I suggest YouTube isn't and never should be one of those avenues. Going underground really isn't for the armchair brigade.

Don't most folk begin by coming across a level whilst hillwalking or similar and wandering in with no helmet and a hand torch and very little idea of what they were potentially getting into? I know I did....

Another channel I follow where a couple documents their motorhome trips did just that and I made a comment about considering helmets and some of the potential dangers. We ended up meeting for a trip underground where I did my best to explain basic safety and some of the downside of publicising entrances and locations. They had a great time and will probably go again once restrictions ease.

I actually recorded some footage during that trip, there is a link to it in my Journal thread. They also recorded some footage but they haven't released a video yet, I'm sure when they do they will do it responsibly.

This to my mind is a positive win.

The world has moved on, people find out about stuff in different ways these days whether we like it or not.

As i've said till i'm blue in the face,
There is nothing to be done.

I suspect out of their 200k + followers, maybe 0.01% of them will ever even poke their head into an adit, even less then will actually set foot in and an even more minute percentage will take a step past any water.

The actual threat is the other youtubers trying to get to the same locations to put up on their own channels.

If you believe that any of their followers are going to go "Oh yeah look how unprofessional these guys are being!" Its just not going to happen. People care not for safety, they care for an entertaining watch, and evidently people DO find it entertaining.

There is nothing to be done, get over it and move on.
Encourage those who appear here and lets teach them the safe ways of enjoying this hobby regardless of how they wind up here.

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I don't think it will make one iota of difference, the "fans" of these type of channels tend to be rather rabid and dogmatic. I do however think it'll give those of us that know what we're doing a good chuckle, and that's all I need from it.

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Wouldn't it be preferable to keep the hobby more elusive and not care what the general public think?

Elusive or exclusive ? Whilst I wouldn't in anyway condone the antics of EWF and their ilk the videos from genuine mine explorers have a place, even on commercial channels. Quality and style can be variable and a few have had some stick on here - sometimes, but not always, rightly so. If its a sensitive site or location then it should be kept anonymous.

For me a video shot by a fellow mine enthusiast is all part of the research into a mine - books, photos, plans, word of mouth and video - all has a place.

I know i suggested i would not participate further in this discussion but as i have been asked directly i feel obliged to reply.
In this instance there's probably very little difference between elusive and exclusive but I did mean elusive.
Ive nothing against videos at all, im against them being put on YouTube as a cash generator.
If a forum such as this had space to host said videos (for example) then the resource is still just that and would not only be interesting but very useful but at the same time is kept away from the sort of people trying to emulate them. It then becomes easier to control and anything copied to more public sites can be removed under copyright grounds.
I would happily pay a small subscription to be a member of a video section used for just that, the revenue being used to pay for the extra hosting. We seemed to cope very well in the days before YouTube and the like.

There is actually an Aditnow YouTube channel....:confused::flowers:


https://www.youtube.com/user/AditNow

I knew eventually one of them would do it. -

"The Most Death I have Ever Found in an Abandoned Mine" - "Viewer discretion advised"

Other 'beauties' include "The Shaft of Eternal Tears", maybe he dropped his rattle, and "Mine of lost Souls".

The word "pathetic" is gross understatement. I think it is actually becoming quite funny.

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Would the shaft of eternal tiers simply refer to the countless levels leading off it?

How about "the Mine of Our Souls"...:devil:

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I know for a fact that one certain Youtube group who recently started on a coal shaft on private land with no permission, now have BCA insurance...
Not sure what kind of message that sends to followers and such

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