legendrider
8 years ago
"ttxela" wrote:

I had a go at making an electron ladder once by the 'pin and resin' method. My first attempt I must have not mixed the resin correctly as if you stood on one rung for long enough you could use it as a sort of slow descender. The second attempt was much better :)



I've been using a homebrew electron ladder for years; 20 yeas ago when I was in Saudi we scrapped a load of 1970's Gas Chromatographs. Their circuit boards were held on aluminium slider rails (light-bulb-moment). The rails were drilled, pinned to steel wire and glued and my ladder was born. Still use it to this day! Mint

MARK
festina lente[i]
Jim MacPherson
8 years ago
"legendrider" wrote:

"ttxela" wrote:

I had a go at making an electron ladder once by the 'pin and resin' method. My first attempt I must have not mixed the resin correctly as if you stood on one rung for long enough you could use it as a sort of slow descender. The second attempt was much better :)



I've been using a homebrew electron ladder for years; 20 yeas ago when I was in Saudi we scrapped a load of 1970's Gas Chromatographs. Their circuit boards were held on aluminium slider rails (light-bulb-moment). The rails were drilled, pinned to steel wire and glued and my ladder was born. Still use it to this day! Mint

MARK




:offtopic: a little further away from Roy's post my Dad made his first electron in the early 1970's, probably about 200ft in total, and as far as I know (I'll ask elder brother presently) they are still in fine fettle after nearly 50 years of mining/potholing use and abuse. They were a step change, literally, from the rope ladders we started with.

Jim
royfellows
8 years ago
Beware of conventional electrons that are old. They can rust through inside the aluminium rungs and not show it, that is until it breaks with you on it.
My avatar is a poor likeness.
Jim MacPherson
8 years ago
Thanks Roy,

I'll tell elder brother of the sneaky problem as he's just told me he still has them in his garage but I don't think he's used them for at least 10 and more probably 20 years. Tempus fugit:(

Jim
royfellows
8 years ago
Slightest bit of brown where the wire passes through, scrap it!

If 20 years old, best scrap it anyway. SRT is best, more accidents with wire ladders than anything.
My avatar is a poor likeness.
John Lawson
8 years ago
Hi Mark & Roy,
Firstly thanks Mark for the pictures of Boggs Shaft(spelling of which seems to vary depending on which plan you look at.)
Glad to learn that Robert's ladders are still in use I will tell him when I next see him!
Roy you seem to have done an excellent job, with your fixed ladders, I would think even if water was pouring over them, whilst corrosion is an issue,they should be good for as long as you and I are around!
legendrider
8 years ago
Hi John,

see earlier post from Nick in which he mentions that a roof fall has brought them down and buried them in the stope. The shale roof beam is particularly grotty in this area, as evidenced by the large Onion chamber in Bogg Shaft (void migration doing its stuff). One solution might be to dig the fall near its base, on the Middlecleugh 2nd Sun Vein horse level, which formerly gave access to the workings beyond. Its a good trip, exiting thru the VMZ stopes and Caplecleugh horse level. forum member Steetleysurfer is always a reliable pair of eyeballs regarding Caplecleugh. :offtopic:

So if anyone wants to go dig out the Bunting ladders, it would be a neat little project! Wonder if our alu maypole is still there as well??

Ahem.. back to you, Roy

MARK
festina lente[i]
royfellows
8 years ago
"John Lawson" wrote:


they should be good for as long as you and I are around!



I suppose that I am a funny old sod but when I incorporated CMT and acquired Cwmystwyth mines I liked to think that I was doing something useful for future mine explorers and my work would be there long after I was gone.

I wondered about other work, the Talybont ladder shaft. The dread that at some time in my life when too old to be able to do anything about it, I would hear news of it all falling in.

Well, it wont do it now.

And Cwmystwyth, well, I tell about that when its finished, but if anyone goes in there watch out for the RSJs ready to go in.
Well this is a team effort, and I owe a debt of thanks to my good friends for getting the damn things in.

My avatar is a poor likeness.
Wormster
8 years ago
"royfellows" wrote:



I suppose that I am a funny old sod but when I incorporated CMT and acquired Cwmystwyth mines I liked to think that I was doing something useful for future mine explorers and my work would be there long after I was gone.

I wondered about other work, the Talybont ladder shaft. The dread that at some time in my life when too old to be able to do anything about it, I would hear news of it all falling in.

Well, it wont do it now.

And Cwmystwyth, well, I tell about that when its finished, but if anyone goes in there watch out for the RSJs ready to go in.
Well this is a team effort, and I owe a debt of thanks to my good friends for getting the damn things in.



Roy, its a precious thing that you do, and, I for one am glad that you do, it keeps places open for us to see, Rave on my man!!!!!!!
Better to regret something you have done - than to regret something you have not done.
ttxela
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8 years ago
"Wormster" wrote:



Roy, its a precious thing that you do, and, I for one am glad that you do, it keeps places open for us to see, Rave on my man!!!!!!!



Seconded, very much looking forward to a visit in 2019, if not before!
John Lawson
8 years ago
Jim,
Just to reinforce what Roy posted on electron ladders !
I used one in Greenlaws, half way down a 30ft pitch and the ladder, wire broke on one side!
I managed to go down it and climbed out the hole I was in!
However the snarl of it breaking remains with me still.
In the 1960's it was standard practice to make electron ladders, usually getting them finished off professionally by an engineering firm fitting C links to their ends.
At that stage it was also recommended that at the end of the u/g activity, the ladders should be soaked in lanolin dissolved in an appropriate solvent.
I think that this practice has been abandoned hence the problems with old electron ladders.
Blober
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8 years ago
Electron ladders are the devils work and why they are still in use today is beyond me.
FILTH - Think this is a playground? Think again...
Jim MacPherson
8 years ago
"John Lawson" wrote:

Jim,
Just to reinforce what Roy posted on electron ladders !
I used one in Greenlaws, half way down a 30ft pitch and the ladder, wire broke on one side!
I managed to go down it and climbed out the hole I was in!
However the snarl of it breaking remains with me still.
In the 1960's it was standard practice to make electron ladders, usually getting them finished off professionally by an engineering firm fitting C links to their ends.
At that stage it was also recommended that at the end of the u/g activity, the ladders should be soaked in lanolin dissolved in an appropriate solvent.
I think that this practice has been abandoned hence the problems with old electron ladders.



Thanks John,

I passed on Roy's points to elder brother, not that I think he was planning much usage anyway, but certainly when John was looking after them he maintained them with (obsessive?) care.
mistericeman
8 years ago
As a slight aside....

has anyone considered the use of 41x41 slotted Unistrut for ladder use....

Just curious as I use it almost daily and in its h/d form is pretty robust, galvanised and already has the holes for rungs drilled.. in 3m or 6m lengths


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112353937239 

I also frequently dispose of offcuts....
J25GTi
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8 years ago
"mistericeman" wrote:

As a slight aside....

has anyone considered the use of 41x41 slotted Unistrut for ladder use....

Just curious as I use it almost daily and in its h/d form is pretty robust, galvanised and already has the holes for rungs drilled.. in 3m or 6m lengths


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112353937239 

I also frequently dispose of offcuts....



Unistrut is the best stuff ever invented. I use it for everything
royfellows
8 years ago
The Unistrut being galvanised would be a solution for the bottom ladder as its a wetter area, the rest of the shaft is really dry.

Thanks for the info
My avatar is a poor likeness.
PeteJ
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8 years ago
"Jim MacPherson" wrote:

"John Lawson" wrote:

Jim,
Just to reinforce what Roy posted on electron ladders !
I used one in Greenlaws, half way down a 30ft pitch and the ladder, wire broke on one side!
I managed to go down it and climbed out the hole I was in!
However the snarl of it breaking remains with me still.
In the 1960's it was standard practice to make electron ladders, usually getting them finished off professionally by an engineering firm fitting C links to their ends.
At that stage it was also recommended that at the end of the u/g activity, the ladders should be soaked in lanolin dissolved in an appropriate solvent.
I think that this practice has been abandoned hence the problems with old electron ladders.



Thanks John,

I passed on Roy's points to elder brother, not that I think he was planning much usage anyway, but certainly when John was looking after them he maintained them with (obsessive?) care.



Early 1960s electron ladders used a wire rope with a hemp core, which rotted from the inside out with predictable consequences.

I have some that were made using aero cable, aluminium rungs held with araldited stainless pins, and c links swaged at Bridon in Doncaster. Still usable by those who have the skill!
Pete Jackson
Frosterley
01388527532
ttxela
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8 years ago
I had heard this regarding electron ladders and it gave me some pause for thought whilst making mine.

I believe the core in the wire is to hold lubricant for the wires? :confused:

I think the problems with hemp cored wires related to them being put away wet and corroding the wire. I attempted to obtain wire rope without a core but this proved very difficult, the rope I used has a fibre core but is not hemp. It appears to be some sort of plastic fibre?

I had also heard of using lanolin, I never obtained any but I've also never really used the ladder much either - I'm not really fond of the things :-[

mistericeman
8 years ago
Regarding wire rope ....

(Apologies IF i'm getting boring with the "We use at work" )

A system called Gripple

http://www.steelwirerope.com/GalvanisedFittings/Gripple/index.html?gclid=COGSgt7-9NQCFY8Q0wodfLUIjg# 

And one called Dobygrip

http://www.dobygrip.com/wire-on-reels.html 

For hanging Aircon units/ductwork etc ...

the wire is available in different diamaters/galvanised/stainless etc etc

The 3mm Dobygrip wire will take 100kg on a single fixing straight drop according to the specs ...

Not sure it's any useful info ...BUT thought I'd bore you lol
ttxela
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8 years ago
I found some pictures of the wire ladder I made. Looks like it was back in 2010.

Detail of the jig for spacing rungs;
🔗112172[linkphoto]112172[/linkphoto][/link]

Rungs spaced out on jig;
🔗112173[linkphoto]112173[/linkphoto][/link]

Rungs clamped in position on jig with alloy angle so wires can be tensioned for fixing them in position with the pins and resin;
🔗112174[linkphoto]112174[/linkphoto][/link]

Load testing;
🔗112175[linkphoto]112175[/linkphoto][/link]

I still have the jig and the centring guide for drilling the rungs we made up so could knock out some more if the mood ever took me :)

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