Graigfawr
10 years ago
The seller's notes claims all three are pertain to Welsh gold mining and state 'they came from a collection of slides relating to gold mining in Mid Wales and slate quarrying in North Wales'.

The nice group photo looks to be about 1900-1905 to judge from the hats. The proprietorial old gent with the splendid beard is very distinctive. All the men look well scrubbed - the company must have asked them to come in on an off day specially for the photo! Looks to be a re-equipping and reopening of an existing mine.

The three-throw pump powering a generator looks quite advanced for the time and the place - assuming its the same date and of the same mine as the group photo. There is a notable amount of brick in the wall and vault housing the pump which is very untypical of Welsh metal mining and slate quarrying regions. The incoming water supply pipe on the left looks recently crudely inserted through the wall; what appears to be an older pipe can be seen in the centre of the wall to its right, suggesting the machinery show had replaced an older installation (which may have performed a different function). All the machinery looks brand-new.

The last photo, captioned on the mount 'Section of Boulder Clay, B-Y-Coed GJW' suggests a location in Gwydyr if pertains to a mine and consequently creates doubt whether all three are of the same location: if all three are from the Betws y Coed area then it'll be a lead-zinc mine; alternatively, if two are Merioneth gold mine images then the third is unrelated. Other permutations are also possible of course. However the specific use of the term 'section of boulder clay' and the detail of the photo gives me the strong impression that this photo is a geological one, probably not closely related to the subject matter shown in the other two, so these may three photos of quite different locations.

grahami
10 years ago
I would have thought the pump is being driven by an electric motor rather than powering a generator.

Brick although not common was used in the slate mines for reinforcing areas where the rock above or around was problematic - for instance there were the "arches" inclines at Oakeley, the foot of Tuxford incline at Votty and the head of the chamber 19 incline on floor B in Llechwedd.

However I would guess that the three images are of metal mines rather than slate. Interesting though, especially the waterwheel and the multi-wheel headframe peeping over the tip on the right.

Grahami
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royfellows
10 years ago
I agree with Graigfawr but question choice of words, "pump".
Note the electric light fitting in the picture, this is suggestive of electricity being generated on site due to the remoteness of these sites from built up areas. Don't forget we talking early 1900s.
Also the exterior shot shows two launders, one feeding the waterwheel, the other feeding a cistern with a descending pipe. I assume that this is feeding the 'engine'.

Metal mine site, yes, and long have I pondered trying to place it!
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simonrl
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10 years ago
Does that make it Dolocauthi then? I wonder whether the National Trust would be interesting in acquiring those?
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JeremyL
10 years ago
HI. The central photo, the group of men is, I belive of the Snaefell Mine in the Isle of Man. Page181 in Andrew Scarffe's book on the Great Laxey Mine shows a wider view. JeremyL
JeremyL
10 years ago
http://www.manxmines.com/SNAEFELL%20MINE.htm . Hope this helps. JeremyL

[tweak]link fixed - sl[/tweak]
Graigfawr
10 years ago
"grahami" wrote:

I would have thought the pump is being driven by an electric motor rather than powering a generator.



My interpretation was influenced by the pipe at rear left which gave me the impression that it was feeding water to the pump from an unknown height - and hence that the pump was powering a generator.

It's possible that the pump was powered by a motor and was pumping water up the pipe to a higher level. However the installation seems a bit late in date to have been installed to recirculate dressing floor or water wheel water.

This plant could conceivably have been run in either direction...

So - we have one Betws y Coed geological photo, one Isle of Man metal mine photo and one unknown. This last image could potentially have been taken in a wide range of locations across a wide swathe of the British Isles.
Trewillan
10 years ago
"Graigfawr" wrote:

My interpretation was influenced by the pipe at rear left which gave me the impression that it was feeding water to the pump from an unknown height - and hence that the pump was powering a generator...

...This plant could conceivably have been run in either direction...



I don't think so. I can't work out how a ram pump could work as a motor, and surely the air vessel indicates the discharge side.
grahami
10 years ago
That rear wall looks suspiciously irregular - like a rough slate/stone wall rather than brick?

Grahami
The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.
gNick
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10 years ago
The pipe runs across from the upper left and down on the right.
Gate valves either side of the pump
Con-rods on pump so a reciprocating pump
Air vessel in between to absorb pulses from the pump
Band brake on the electric motor shaft?

It looks like an electrically driven pump, that can drive the water either or both ways, with direction controlled by the gate valves.

Back wall looks like roughly rendered stone. possibly this is an extension to an existing building.
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rufenig
10 years ago
I think that I agree with Graigfawr's first comment.
It is an hydraulic motor, not a pump.
There looks to be a large generator on one end and a brake in the middle.
The cylinder on the top feed pipe is a pneumatic shock absorber. This is a cylinder with an air bell in the top which can compress to absorb water hammer and prevent damage to the engine.
IMHO.
gNick
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10 years ago
If hydraulic motor, then presumably able to be fed from 2 sides with the gate valves controlling whichever source. It looks like the valve on the side with the man is closed and the one on the other side is at least partly open.

I wonder how late this picture is as the light fitting looks relatively modern...
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Trewillan
10 years ago
"gNick" wrote:

If hydraulic motor, then presumably able to be fed from 2 sides with the gate valves controlling whichever source. It looks like the valve on the side with the man is closed and the one on the other side is at least partly open.

I wonder how late this picture is as the light fitting looks relatively modern...



I'd still like to know how a three-ram pump can operate as a motor.
rufenig
gNick
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10 years ago
"Trewillan" wrote:


I'd still like to know how a three-ram pump can operate as a motor.



It isn't a ram pump?

Don't look so embarrassed, it's a family trait...

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