Just wondering if anybody could tell me where I can buy some 'Colliers emergency packs' from. We are clearing an old mine shaft and the air is getting quite bad and have been advised to get some, have tried googling it but nothing any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Presume they mean rebreathers?

Don't know enough about them to comment other than that if I had to rely on one to dig safely, I'd find another dig...

A re-breather ( self rescuer) works ONLY by converting toxic carbon monoxide to carbon dioxide. ( CO - C02) by a chemical reaction.
These chemicals go out of date so without checking they are worthless. (Opening one will render it useless.)

You need to know what is present (or missing ) from the air.
For this you need a calibrated gas monitor.

Then possibly (for trained persons) Breathing aparatus could be used under confined spaces regulations.

The simple rule 1
If you do not know what the air is and you are not trained STAY OUT.
You are potentially risking someone else who may need to rescue you.

A re-breather works ONLY by converting toxic carbon monoxide to carbon dioxide. ( CO - C02) by a chemical reaction.
These chemicals go out of date so without checking they are worthless. (Opening one will render it useless.)

You need to know what is present (or missing ) from the air.
For this you need a calibrated gas monitor.

Then possibly (for trained persons) Breathing aparatus could be used under confined spaces regulations.

The simple rule 1
If you do not know what the air is and you are not trained STAY OUT.
You are potentially risking someone else who may need to rescue you.

Good advice.

If you are concerned about air quality forget self rescuers, if you are working in an environment where you need them you are pushing the limits of recreational mine exploration a bit too far.

Invest in a calibrated multi gas meter. If you are working a blind end and the problem is rising Co2/ falling O2 you might consider cobbling together an electric fan which might do the trick.

However if in doubt bail out

A re-breather works ONLY by converting toxic carbon monoxide to carbon dioxide. ( CO - C02) by a chemical reaction.
These chemicals go out of date so without checking they are worthless. (Opening one will render it useless.)

You need to know what is present (or missing ) from the air.
For this you need a calibrated gas monitor.

Then possibly (for trained persons) Breathing aparatus could be used under confined spaces regulations.

The simple rule 1
If you do not know what the air is and you are not trained STAY OUT.
You are potentially risking someone else who may need to rescue you.

I agree, good advice.

I may well be wrong but I thought rebreathers absorbed CO2?
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/mining/researchprogram/contracts/iag12FED1213325.html 

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If you are concerned about air quality forget self rescuers, if you are working in an environment where you need them you are pushing the limits of recreational mine exploration a bit too far.

Invest in a calibrated multi gas meter. If you are working a blind end and the problem is rising Co2/ falling O2 you might consider cobbling together an electric fan which might do the trick.

However if in doubt bail out

Yes, forget self-rescuers...they are the absolute last line of defence. If you are ever in a situation where you think you might even remotely possibly need one then I'm afraid that you are WAY out of your depth.
Hire a gas tester (I recommend an MSA AltAir 4-gas) for about £30/wk and use it to check what you have (toxic, flammable whatever....unlikely) and also more importantly to check what you DON'T have (low oxygen content is far more likely) and then go from there. Lower it down on a rope, leave it for 5 mins then remove it and see what you find. The monitor will probably alarm at a very safe level, like about 19% oxygen. Alarms aside, take readings and educate yourself as to what they mean. Assess the surroundings, airflow, type of mine, rotting timber, running water, fungal growth etc etc and with a bit of research and education you should be able to predict what the monitor tells you before you even use it.
PM me with the readings if you're not sure? :thumbup:

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I agree with the advice above.

The best way to sort this problem out is with ventilation.
If the shaft starts at surface it is very easy, if underground maybe more difficult.
Basically you need a fan of some description and some ducting.
Very cheap ducting is available in the form of polythene packaging. It comes as a long, lay-flat sausage, on a roll. Maybe 100 metres on one roll. When they use it for packaging it is heat crimped and cut with goods inside, making a sealed bag. However, for us it is the cheapest ducting you can get and comes in many sizes and strengths.
Just lay out the ducting down the shaft and blow some air in, letting the foul air drift out. Join lengths with a cut off oil drum and jubilee clips.

Les

I may well be wrong but I thought rebreathers absorbed CO2?
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/mining/researchprogram/contracts/iag12FED1213325.html 

To be correct here we are probably talking of a "Self Rescuer"
There are other more modern escape devices that work on other principals, depending on the risk.
http://www.frontline-safety.co.uk/msa-w95-filter-self-rescuer-c-14-p-4433 

Check out this UKC thread regarding ventilation fans

http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=7475.0 

Thanks to everyone for their advice it's all very useful and appreciated. We are currently clearing the shaft at 28 fathoms depth and coming into a big working that was heavily timbered although we have an air line it is so noisy it's not on all the time. We don't really have a problem with water as it is on the top of a hill and only get wet after rain naturally coming through the rock. We just keep being told about the water table rising and pushing gases up but what gases we don't know. It is a lead mine.

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It is most likely air depleted of oxygen. Or could be Co2 buildup in lower workings.

As staffordshirechina has advised get some more fresh air in there.

A flame safety lamp or even a candle will give an indication but an oxygen meter is the way to go.

One thing to watch out for is Hydrogen sulphide (bad egg smell) if you ever smell that get out!

If you are entering a heavily timbered area CO2 may be an issue.

In a sulphidey (is that a word) mine it is possible that rising water levels might release H2S.

To reiterate what people have already said get yourself a multi gas meter and learn how to use it.

Poly Layflat tubing available here:

http://www.macropackaging.co.uk/layflat-tubing-tube/clear-layflat-tubing-tube-500g 

no connection, just a happy customer 🙂

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