grahami
  • grahami
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie Topic Starter
11 years ago
I was busy digging (metaphorically) for information about Frederick Beaumont and Thomas English and their tunnelling machines and came across this - which is an interesting read:

http://pubs-newcomen.com/tfiles/65p001.pdf 

Edit: The title is "British Tunnelling Machines in the First World War"

Along the way it refers to the Beaumont/English channel tunnelling machines being built by Fowlers at Leeds. It also refers to a photo in Lane's book on the firm of the front end of a tunnelling machine. Some years ago I came across this photo of what looks like a tunnelling machine (or maybe a heading machine for coal?)

đŸ”—Personal-Album-54-Image-95190[linkphoto]Personal-Album-54-Image-95190[/linkphoto][/link]


Has anyone seen (or heard) of any more about Fowler's involvement or what this machine might be ?

Cheers

Grahami
The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.
staffordshirechina
11 years ago
Was this the same John Fowler who made traction engines?
Darran Cowd
11 years ago
The Fowler business archives are held at the Museum of English Rural Life in Reading...I don't know how well they're set up for giving immediate responses to enquiries - it probably requires a visit.
Tamarmole
11 years ago
Not Fowler related but (If you haven't already done so) check out the Royal Cornwall Polytechnic Society's 1867 Annual report. It contains details of Beamont & Lococks "Rock Tunnelling Machine" pp 43 - 46 and also J.D Brunton's Tunnelling Machine pp 56 - 57.

Of interest is Brunton's comment (p 57):

" A contract is now entered into to drive a level a distance of about 100 fathoms in the slate rock of North Wales......."
AR
  • AR
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie
11 years ago
"staffordshirechina" wrote:

Was this the same John Fowler who made traction engines?



I'd assume so, AFAIK there was only ever one firm of engineers called Fowler in Leeds.
Follow the horses, Johnny my laddie, follow the horses canny lad-oh!
grahami
  • grahami
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie Topic Starter
11 years ago
"Darran Cowd" wrote:

The Fowler business archives are held at the Museum of English Rural Life in Reading...I don't know how well they're set up for giving immediate responses to enquiries - it probably requires a visit.



Thinking back, it was probably their on-line archives I found the image in, I knew it was Reading something or other.... I didn't know they also held other info. Another line of enquiry to follow up when I get a mo, (sighs);)

Thanks

Grahami
The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.
JohnnearCfon
11 years ago
"Tamarmole" wrote:

Not Fowler related but (If you haven't already done so) check out the Royal Cornwall Polytechnic Society's 1867 Annual report. It contains details of Beamont & Lococks "Rock Tunnelling Machine" pp 43 - 46 and also J.D Brunton's Tunnelling Machine pp 56 - 57.

Of interest is Brunton's comment (p 57):

" A contract is now entered into to drive a level a distance of about 100 fathoms in the slate rock of North Wales......."



J & W A Brunton did a survey of Maen Offeren in 1877.
simonrl
  • simonrl
  • 51% (Neutral)
  • Administration
11 years ago
"JohnnearCfon" wrote:

J & W A Brunton did a survey of Maen Offeren in 1877.



I wonder if that mean the contract for driving that level was at Maen Offeren?

Is it documented that all the bores were cut with the Hunter tunneller? I wonder if it's possible one of them wasn't?

However if it was for 100 fathoms (and assuming it was attempted) then it couldn't have been terribly successful. I can't think that any of the bores are more than 10 to 12 fathoms.

Fathom as a unit of distance - is that not rather unusual?
my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by
JohnnearCfon
11 years ago
Here is an engraving of Brunton's tunnelling machine:-

http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/File:Im1956v201-p758a.jpg 
Tamarmole
11 years ago
"SimonRL" wrote:

"JohnnearCfon" wrote:

J & W A Brunton did a survey of Maen Offeren in 1877.



I wonder if that mean the contract for driving that level was at Maen Offeren?

Is it documented that all the bores were cut with the Hunter tunneller? I wonder if it's possible one of them wasn't?

However if it was for 100 fathoms (and assuming it was attempted) then it couldn't have been terribly successful. I can't think that any of the bores are more than 10 to 12 fathoms.

Fathom as a unit of distance - is that not rather unusual?



Fathom is fairly commonly used as a measure of distance west of Exeter.
simonrl
  • simonrl
  • 51% (Neutral)
  • Administration
11 years ago
"Tamarmole" wrote:

Fathom is fairly commonly used as a measure of distance west of Exeter.



Thanks Tamarmole.

I'm obviously familiar with it being used as a unit of depth in mines - just never encountered it for length / distance before.

Curiously, the only slate mine (to the best of my knowledge) in N Wales that uses fathoms for floor numbers is Bryn Eglwys near Abergynolwyn.
my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by
Tamarmole
11 years ago
"SimonRL" wrote:

"Tamarmole" wrote:

Fathom is fairly commonly used as a measure of distance west of Exeter.



Thanks Tamarmole.

I'm obviously familiar with it being used as a unit of depth in mines - just never encountered it for length / distance before.

Curiously, the only slate mine (to the best of my knowledge) in N Wales that uses fathoms for floor numbers is Bryn Eglwys near Abergynolwyn.



Does Bryn Eglwys have Cornish connections?

Do Welsh metal mines use fathoms?
lozz
  • lozz
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie
11 years ago
The fathom was also used as a cubic measure:

http://www.cornishminers.com/wordsf.htm 

Lozz.
Graigfawr
11 years ago
Tamarmole asked "Do Welsh metal mines use fathoms?" - Yes, much more common than yards or feet for depths; especially used to designate level names, usually (though not invariably) as depths below deep adit level.

Lozz observed "The fathom was also used as a cubic measure" Fathoms were also used as square measure, especially when calculating areas of stopeable lode in sq. fms. and expressing ore as tons per [sq.] fm.

Many metal mine plans were drawn at scales of x fms. to an inch. I've never found antique scale rules to 5 or 10 fms to an inch (the most usually encountered scales) and have had to make my own (1:360 and 1:720 respectively).

Sorry: :offtopic:
grahami
  • grahami
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie Topic Starter
11 years ago
I think it's been remarked before that there were a lo of Brunton's - related yes, but not as a single company. The Maenofferen surveyors were not the same bit of the family as the Dickinson Bruntons of the tunneller.

Also J.D.Brunton's tunneller was not a trepanner like the Hunters (and even Beaumonts early machine!) but effectively ground away at the rock. Great for soft friable stuff but no good for hard rock like slate or worse. All the levels we know of look to have been cut with trepanners not Brunton's disc cutter - whih would leave a disticntive end surface- unless someone knows something about the end of the Rhos Goch level and can contradict me.

Grahami
The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.
Simon M
11 years ago
Tunnelling machines have been around for a long time and during WW I they were experimenting with them for warfare. They were being designed to replicate medieval war methods of tunnelling under a structure and packing with explosives to collapse it.

With trench warfare the idea was to tunnel under the enemy trench and collapse large sections of them, and also under local headquarters and collapse them also.
AR
  • AR
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie
11 years ago
"SimonRL" wrote:

I'm obviously familiar with it being used as a unit of depth in mines - just never encountered it for length / distance before.



I've seen fathoms used for length measurements fairly regularly in the records of Peak District mines, either to record how far a company had driven or in the agreed bargain rate.
Follow the horses, Johnny my laddie, follow the horses canny lad-oh!
Similar Topics
Users browsing this topic

Disclaimer: Mine exploring can be quite dangerous, but then again it can be alright, it all depends on the weather. Please read the proper disclaimer.
© 2005 to 2023 AditNow.co.uk

Dedicated to the memory of Freda Lowe, who believed this was worth saving...