lozz
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12 years ago
"stuey" wrote:

The Wheal Concord book is worth a read.

Lambriggan Zinc mine would be an interesting prospect.

I suppose one snag we have is the lefty yoghurt weavers entrenched in the make-the-rules sector which will put a spanner in any set of adventurers works. Sadly, a massive human population need to ****** the environment up in order not to have a caveman style of life. I'm sure the hairy armpited feminist freaks who work for the environment agency/LA would rather we all lived on boiled grass (from sustainable, carbon neutral heating sources) in sodding mud huts. Cretins.

They will hang onto their nice payscales and pensions when you are living in a mud hut, I should have said.



I have a distant memory of Lambrigan being mentioned as a possible back in the 70's..anyone know?

Lozz.
pwhole
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12 years ago
"stuey" wrote:

I'm sure the hairy armpited feminist freaks who work for the environment agency/LA would rather we all lived on boiled grass (from sustainable, carbon neutral heating sources) in sodding mud huts. Cretins.



I've known a few good people who've worked for the EA, including a couple of hot ladies that certainly didn't fit the description above - and one is also a very experienced caver/mine explorer, who's helped out a lot with info, etc. and is more than familiar with abandoned mine workings.

Like all institutions, they'll have all types of people in there. I'm sure the overall corporate direction may be a little more as described, but my personal experience of individuals is rather different. Anyway, back to the main topic.
exspelio
12 years ago
Re: Low alpha lead, most old lead mines round here are notorious for radon, is this radiation related?, in which case it is a non- starter.
I once knew a scrap metal magnate who was obsessed with digging up the streets of Sheffield to get at the buried pre-'45 tram tracks for reclamation of non radioactive steel.
Always remember, nature is in charge, get it wrong and it is you who suffers!.
Graigfawr
12 years ago
"exspelio" wrote:

I once knew a scrap metal magnate who was obsessed with digging up the streets of Sheffield to get at the buried pre-'45 tram tracks for reclamation of non radioactive steel.



From around the late 1970s to around the late 1980s there was a market for large pieces of pre-1945 steel as some scientific equipment needed to be machined from steel made prior to human-induced background radiation (i.e. the 1945 bombs and later bombs). This market collapsed in the early 1990s when it became possible to correct for post-1945 radiation. I'm hazy on the details as its 20 years since a physicist explained it to me.
exspelio
12 years ago
That figures, this was early to mid '80's.
Always remember, nature is in charge, get it wrong and it is you who suffers!.
Alasdair Neill
12 years ago
Regarding South Crofty, they are probably going about it on the right lines if you look at previous history of reopening old deep Cornish mines.
Usually when attempting to go to the supposed rich bottom of an old mine,this failed because the cost of reopening & dewatering was hugely underestimated. Basically these ventures ran out of capital before sufficient new developmeny was undertaken. The only successes were where new near surface lodes were opened up which probably due to chance more than anything else proved to be a success, subsequently enabling adjoining deeper mines to be dewatered as the mines extended.
Geevor, subsequently extending into Boscaswell & Levant is probably the prime example.
Of course if there is an endless supply of capital the story might be different, & if Crofty had been kept dewatered then the bottom would be where to go.
Regarding many of the areas Trounson describes, these were really odd prospects in outlying areas with a long history of small mining ventures which were very rarely financially succesful: I strongly think the best chances are going back with modern ideas to areas with a good history of financially successful mining. However going along with something Allen Buckley recently said, many (or most) Cornish mines which were financial failures WERE really succesful in that they supported generations of miners & support industries. Wheal Jane is a case in point - CGF & RTZ poured lakes of finance into the mine & I think it only paid one dividend, but it employed several hundred miners for 20 years & supported a host of suppliers, & led on to the apparently thriving buisinesses on the site today.
stuey
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12 years ago
Good point well made.

A lot of fuss was always made about how wet Jane was. What is incredible to learn is not only were they pumping out United to a ridiculous level, that extended right through Squire Woods into Ting Tang. The water was also down in Consols, I also imagine it was partially down through Wheal Jewel and right through out towards West Damsel. No wonder it was wet, they were pretty much pumping out the whole of Gwennap. That's without considering the parallel Wheal Sperries as well as Old Jane and Basset Graze etc, etc.

I remember hearing stories about how Wellington were quite keen on driving a sub level out towards Killifreth. Realistically, since they had already tackled a lot of the dewatering, the back of it was broken.

Gwennap fascinates me and has been the centre of my poking around for a number of years, it strikes me that sadly, anyone resuming mining in the area (perhaps continuing the Maid Decline Project) will be thwarted by epic and considerable interlinked drainage problems. I think it was utterly tragic the maid decline project was halted. Despite the good values found under Whiteworks and the associated parallel lodes, the whole area is saturated with almost infinite water.

I think Trounson hit the nail on the head pretty square and there are most certainly numerous prospects which are very real things to open and in due course, will open (unless we wean ourselves from the nipple of consumption). However, I think the psychology of the people involved needs to change (which is probably backed up by HSE and all the other crap) Half of the suggestions are not appropriate to the "think big" mining we currently enjoy.

I suppose you have big scale Hemerdon, big scale Cligga Head (if they can put it past the yoghurt weavers) Big Scale Crofty, and that's pretty much it. If I recall correctly, apart from some hugely watered and interlinked stuff around the Tregurtha Downs area, there are very few deposits suited to large scales and monster mills.

I am very much of the opinion that the size of mines against time will appear like a bell curve. This is totally obvious, whilst luckily, mill efficiency will hopefully continue improving.

I think it was trounson who posed the idea of having small scale mines being linked to a large central mill.

My point about Yoghurt Weavers putting spanners in the works is from a period when I mucked about with analytical chemistry at a university. I rubbed shoulders with a lot of yoghurt weavers, both with academic posts and students. Needless to say, one of the key gripes with modern education is that it is often devoid of context, particularly economic context. In the old days, people had enough of a "comprehensive" education and the ability to think which allowed them to pitch the output of their studies at a sensible level. I firmly believe (from talking and working with a fair old sample of them) that this is not the case.

We have a situation where PPMs are dangerous and unacceptable and sadly "No, you cannot de-water that mine" when in the old days, they would have just got on with it. I did enough Environmental Chemistry to allow me to teach it at A' Level and at no point did I note anything referring to toxicology. However, there were plenty of "EU rule 873/B/65-h says "No more than 200PPM allowed"". What the first thing a chemist would say to you is "What form is the stuff in?" Clearly, all stuff is not present in the same manner and it poses different levels of threats to the environment.

I really do hope that toxicological studies have been very clearly done and then the results of that applied and tested in the field, and that the people undertaking the tests were not exhibiting any bias in their judgement and then, when the potential economic benefit is noted, how we balance the potential environmental impact in the larger context of similar environments. Clearly, the Environment Act has all the acronyms and procedures in order to achieve this (and I've forgotten what they are now).

Sadly, we have way too many people on this island and they need a country with lots of money to keep the quality of life up. Clearly, if spending is not under control, the whole thing spectacularly leaves the rails and hits the wall. It is of vital importance that yoghurt weavers and left wing luddites do not prevent actual real economic wealth creation by using a few frogs and a few PPMs to halt a potential operation.

I really would like to believe that the mineral authority would exercise some sense, but given the hopeless climate we are in and the total and utter incapacity of anyone in charge, you can absolutely guarantee that it will never happen.

I hope I am proved wrong, because what I think, largely based upon what Trounson had to say, as well as some post war Ministry of Supply reports, is that Cornwall has quite a rosy future of mineral production. (perhaps not for a few decades yet).

Anyway.....
lozz
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12 years ago
Hi, have got a copy of the BGS paper on Lambriggan mine, how do I upload it to the forum, it's a PDF document.

Lozz
rikj
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12 years ago
"lozz" wrote:

Hi, have got a copy of the BGS paper on Lambriggan mine, how do I upload it to the forum, it's a PDF document.



If you go to the page for the mine;

http://www.aditnow.co.uk/mines/Lambriggan-Sulphur-Mine/ 

there is an option at the top right to upload a document. You'll be prompted to choose it from the files on your PC.
lozz
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12 years ago
"rikj" wrote:

"lozz" wrote:

Hi, have got a copy of the BGS paper on Lambriggan mine, how do I upload it to the forum, it's a PDF document.



If you go to the page for the mine;

http://www.aditnow.co.uk/mines/Lambriggan-Sulphur-Mine/ 

there is an option at the top right to upload a document. You'll be prompted to choose it from the files on your PC.



Thanks for that, now uploaded and available.

Lozz.
stuey
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12 years ago
Fascinating stuff.

You will have noted the report by Josiah Thomas on Droskyn and Wheal Leisure on here.

I would like to see the results of Moorhead's "Scorrier Wolfram" explorations. Dines refers to it lots, but there is no referenced material.
lozz
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12 years ago
Yes, the main search for the Lambriggan doc was prompted by a vague memory of some rumblings back in the 70's I seem to remember that a mining engineer that I knew back then was maybe involved or had some knowledge about it.

Lozz
stuey
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12 years ago
I think there is a lot of zinc down there, however the adit was pretty shallow. (6F IIRC) and the whole thing would have required pumping.

Sadly, if a band of adventurers had got whiteworks in operation whilst Jane were pumping, they could have made some proper cash.

The more I think about it, the more I see it being small lodes which were insignificantly mined, or big rich ones left under 10^14 gallons of water. Either way, it's not very favourable.
lozz
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12 years ago
Another hicup maybe, the mineral rights owners are going to want their dues?

I have an old mine on some property I own, I was fortunate enough to meet the late Justin Brook when he lived near Marazion, one of his interests was old mine accounts (the money side) He had written many accounts for many Cornish mines from his data research, he had even done one for the one on my land, basically the mine did not make much at all but the mineral/landowner "Lordie" got his money no matter what.

Like I said, not grubbing the idea but there is a lot to take on board and many pitfalls, hats off to anyone who has a go though.

Lozz.
stuey
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12 years ago
Well, it's rather like that with the government, rather than the lords now. I've spent the last 2 years breaking myself to get a business off the ground. Whilst we worked long hours for less than the minimum wage, the VAT man did extremely well. It is totally sickening.....

I'm sure like any well designed parasite, a mineral lord (whoever that may be) would appreciate that some money is better than none. Unlike the government, they are driven by capitalism!
lozz
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12 years ago
"stuey" wrote:

Well, it's rather like that with the government, rather than the lords now. I've spent the last 2 years breaking myself to get a business off the ground. Whilst we worked long hours for less than the minimum wage, the VAT man did extremely well. It is totally sickening.....

I'm sure like any well designed parasite, a mineral lord (whoever that may be) would appreciate that some money is better than none. Unlike the government, they are driven by capitalism!



Yeah...Been there, done that, smoked the tee shirt.
Never again.

A quote, not aimed at anyone but just an obsevation on life...
"If you want sympathy you will find it in the dictionary between s**t and syphellus"

Lozz.
John Mason
12 years ago
"pwhole" wrote:

"stuey" wrote:

I'm sure the hairy armpited feminist freaks who work for the environment agency/LA would rather we all lived on boiled grass (from sustainable, carbon neutral heating sources) in sodding mud huts. Cretins.



I've known a few good people who've worked for the EA, including a couple of hot ladies that certainly didn't fit the description above - and one is also a very experienced caver/mine explorer, who's helped out a lot with info, etc. and is more than familiar with abandoned mine workings.

Like all institutions, they'll have all types of people in there. I'm sure the overall corporate direction may be a little more as described, but my personal experience of individuals is rather different. Anyway, back to the main topic.



I'd agree with this. Stuey, you are starting to sound way OTT with respect to the environment. Are you not sensible enough to realise that if it goes tits-up, so do I, so so you, and your kids if you have any? We rely on it for air, water and food. Just drop this "youghourt-weaving" bollocks, please!
davetidza
12 years ago
I'd thoroughly agree!!! It's no wonder that the Mining History interest in Cornwall lags so far behind other areas in the U.K. When any interest in met by a wall of 'Daily Mail type' invective, it's no wonder that the authorities ignore the 'enthusiasts' and carry on without their possible imput. You need to work with the 'authorities' and not deride their every move. It takes some years to gain their confidence but it is the 'authorities' who have the purse-strings and the power to influence the mining landscape.
stuey
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12 years ago
John, with all due respect, our country is totally and utterly beyond the point of return with it's finances. We have a state that is so big and so parasitic, it threatens the quality of life for many. Essentially, those who depend on it are going to have to adjust things, those with savings are going to be subject to huge devaluation of them with inflation/devaluing relative to other currencies.

I am a pragmatist and I have no time for first-half-only keynesianism. The fact is that Britain has to make cuts and it has to get some sort of wealth generation going on. This WILL be via exports and devaluation of the currency. Watch it happen.

I reserve the right to use the term yoghurt-weavers, as that pretty much typifies the sorts of people you get in environmental departments. It's all well and good saving every last habitat and respecting the life of every last lesser spotted dragonfly but sadly, in order for a totally overpopulated island to survive this ongoing financial and structural predicament, the last thing we need is bloody yoghurt weavers with no idea about how the economy works buggering things up.

Sadly, socialism, the state and environmental romanticism are luxuries which we as a nation really cannot afford at all. It's not very nice and I too would rather the population had been managed and all the little bunnies could twitch their noses in the daisys and we could all have a sustainable way of life powered by a low carbon wind-turbine.

But it is totally unrealistic.

However, since I have been reasoned into my viewpoint, I am prepared to be reasoned out of it. 🙂
lozz
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12 years ago
I think Stuey might be right, especially on the perks side of things ie: pensions etc.
Who says Cornwall is lagging in mining history.....
I don't know Stuey but hey we all have off days when we just about slag everything off except ourselves.
I am doing that right now, big time, with a parcel courier firm who say they can't find us, if I owed them a couple o' grand they would find us sure enough.

Peace.

(Edit: Ooops missed Stueys last post as I was typing this reply)

Lozz.

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