Clarghyll or Ayle coal mine· Page 3

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Jim MacPherson
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8 years ago

#41

"oldpitman" wrote:
Patch was out but I trailed up nent to see Hubert who has worked most of the Alston pits. He reckons it's clargill. He worked the screens as well.
Will catch patch in next couple weeks, trying to catch up on work after nororr virus and man flu, will be back up lane head before month end

Thanks,

Seems to be a lot of ailment about at the moment, trust your van is now happy.

Jim

Morlock
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8 years ago

#42

My first thoughts are, the valley rises either side of the stream and the wheel actually discharges into the stream, the water being from a higher source, perhaps a dam somewhere behind the camera position?
Also, taking what I assume are standard fence posts, a 6-1/2 foot door and an assumed hand held shot with camera at eye level I would estimate around 3-5 feet diameter.All pure speculation.

Edit: Do you think the wheel was originally in the obvious channel or where it now rests?

Jim MacPherson
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8 years ago

#43

"Morlock" wrote:
My first thoughts are, the valley rises either side of the stream and the wheel actually discharges into the stream, the water being from a higher source, perhaps a dam somewhere behind the camera position?
Also, taking what I assume are standard fence posts, a 6-1/2 foot door and an assumed hand held shot with camera at eye level I would estimate around 3-5 feet diameter.

All pure speculation.

Ah! the joy of speculation, there's nothing for it I'll have to go and find it and do some measurements. My reasoning for the direct feed is largely based on the "speculation" that the photo is taken looking downstream and I can't see any evidence of a leat or indication of some kind of penstock to the right Dad's position:)

Your edit caught me out.

🔗109755[linkphoto]109755[/linkphoto][/link]

This is the close up photo, it looks like the drive shaft is there, so I'm assuming it's in original position, the width of the "wheel pit" might mean it replaced an earlier wooden wheel?

Morlock
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8 years ago

#44

My diameter speculation has proved to be unfounded based on the latest image, now concur the diameter may be closer to your estimate.
If we continue to speculate that the wheel is a breastshot, (based on the angled vane design) we will be looking for a head drop of 1/2 diameter somewhere in the system.
Prehaps a 3 foot dam structure has been washed away or demolished.

Nothing quite like a good bit of armchair speculation:);D

http://www.engr.psu.edu/mtah/images/EvansBreastshot800.jpg

Jim MacPherson
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8 years ago

#45

I'm no idle armchair speculator:lol:, I'm a bone-idle swivel chair speculator:smartass: sat in my office or conservatory as some folk may have it.

It's possible the framework to the left and behind the wheel in the second photo could be the base of a penstock, neither photo's digital image allows good enough magnification to be very confident, if so that would increase the output by a bit maybe 1.25hp?

Jim

Morlock
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8 years ago

#46

I'm beginning to think the waterworks theory may well be a dead end as it now appears the wheel is bigger and also unlike any water measuring type.
The shed also looks much too shoddy for a waterworks.
Perhaps private power supply although the shed looks more mine related.

I'll rotate my chair to square on to screen and get back to sat images, I'll also dig up my "Small Scale Water Power" book.

Edit: Perhaps we seek something that was spirited away to a scrapyard since image date and is now overgrown?

John.

Jim MacPherson
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8 years ago

#47

I may be a bit out with the date of the photo, it coul be early/mid'80's rather than mid '90's as John and Hilda spent quite some time at Killhope with various PDHMS people when the restoration was getting underway. That may well mean that the structure has been altered/removed, although the walled bits look moderately robust and of a reasonably size to be visible on a satellite image.

Jim

With luck oldpitman's contacts in Lanehead can provide more clues.

PeteJ
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8 years ago

#48

I am going to be spending time between Lanehead and Killhope next week. Will take a print with me.

Pete Jackson
Frosterley
01388527532

Jim MacPherson
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8 years ago

#49

"PeteJ" wrote:
I am going to be spending time between Lanehead and Killhope next week. Will take a print with me.

Hi Pete,

I assume, based on my 6ft diameter wheel guess, the wheel pit/leat/sluice structure would be about 25/30 ft long and about 15 ft wide and perhaps 4/5 ft deep, the stone blocks look quite sizeable as well, so even if the wheel and shed have gone something should remain (the leat/channel walling in the foreground of the first photo look dressed and mortared). I'm planning on being an optimist when I grow up:)

Jim

Morlock
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8 years ago

#50

Well worth a look.

http://www.alternative-energy-tutorials.com/hydro-energy/waterwheel-design.html

Jim MacPherson
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8 years ago

#51

"Morlock" wrote:
Well worth a look.

http://www.alternative-energy-tutorials.com/hydro-energy/waterwheel-design.html

You may recall this thread from some time ago;

http://www.aditnow.co.uk/community/viewtopic.aspx?t=11262&pid=2#msg162339

John Lawson brought up the point that in theory 2% of UK power needs could be met by small hydro plants. Lanehead might be/could have been in the van;D

Morlock
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8 years ago

#52

Agree.:) A pity there are so many hoops to jump through for small scale private plants.

Jim MacPherson
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8 years ago

#53

http://heatherrosscowshill.blogspot.com/ )

A rapid response from all three.

It was at Allers Lea, between Lanehead and Cowshill, and used to charge low tension accumulator batteries, seems that it was probably dismantled in the early 1980's. Ian thinks it may have, originally, had a use in a mine but he's not sure which one, so that's the next query:)

Isn't the internet brilliant at times.

Jim

Morlock
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8 years ago

#54

25 inch maps are almost there.:)

Jim MacPherson
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8 years ago

#55

Yes NLS moves in mysterious ways, but inexorably northwards (unless you want stuff from Wales:devil: )

Rather fortuitously Durham RO sent a digital copy of a 1st Series (1857) 25 inch (complete with added colour!) of an area being investigated which has been annotated in (faint) pencil by an unknown hand but did contain some interesting additional information. We were also sent some early aerial (mainly WW2 reconnaissance - training probably) photos of the same area, quite fascinating in part because it shows how little the area has altered over the last 150+ years, just a slow subsuming mainly by nature but aided and abetted by sheep and rabbits.

Jim

PS I'm still not sure whether it's Clarghyll, Ayle or a coal mine somewhere else in the North Pennines, just to return to the original reason for posting, I blame Harry Parker!;D

Jim MacPherson
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6 years ago

#56

Just as an update to the waterwheel at Lanehead, which was at Allers Lea, I had a conversation with Mike and Mavis Luff this afternoon after the "North Pennines Mines Research Group" meeting. Mike is confident the wheel came from the dressing floors at Killhope, possibly late 1940's, when the usage at Lanehead ended (1980's) it went to Crich and was dismantled and stored more recently it's found a new home and is being restored to working condition and Mike will be visiting it presently, so perhaps a new photo may emerge.

Entertaining how bits of a history arise over time.

Jim

Morlock
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6 years ago

#57

Very good news as I assumed the metal recyclers may have had it away.:)

Jim MacPherson
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6 years ago

#58

"Morlock" wrote:
Very good new as I assumed the metal recyclers may have had it away.:)

Just sometimes there are silver linings 🙂

oldpitman
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6 years ago

#59

According to Kevin at Ayle.. it's Clarghyl and most likely Malcom Hewison
Sorry for delay, but got there in the end

Jim MacPherson
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6 years ago

#60

"oldpitman" wrote:
According to Kevin at Ayle.. it's Clarghyl and most likely Malcom Hewison
Sorry for delay, but got there in the end

Many thanks,

I'll amend the notes on the photo and my PDHMS file.

I was pondering about getting touch with Ayle directly as they are still active though I understand that they are trying to develop alternative activities as there seems to be only limited scope in the house coal market?

Jim