Very useful. Seems we live on top of probable old workings.

Some nice snippets from more modern mines; this from Gascoigne Wood :

"a 2m thick reinforced concrete stopping, tied into the drift walls and floor, was constructed 80m inbye of the adit mouth and the drift was subsequently filled from the stopping to the surface with a combination of injected grout, multi roll filter cake and grouted demolition rubble by UK Coal in 2005 "

Cross that one of the list of potential digs then !

Don't click on that website - it's cunning trick to keep out pesky mine explorers. Every time you click a red cross it will trigger a response from the CA who will turn up with wagon loads of grout! :tongue:

Hello, new here, know nothing of all this mining if truth be known. But could someone tell me if the location co-ordinates in the corner of the interactive map are accurate. Are these the co-ordinates they use on official Coal Authority Mining Interpretive reports?

Any info would be most appreciated.

Are these the co-ordinates they use on official Coal Authority Mining Interpretive reports?
Any info would be most appreciated.

The map viewer is reasonably accurate
BUT should not be thought of as a "Definitive" source.
The presence or absence of a mark is not proof.
Even the main database is missing many many early, shallow un-documented workings.

If you give details of the area that you are interested in someone may have more information.

It also appears to show non coal mines too, so long as they fall within an area marked as having coal mines.

How do you get it to show coordinates? The ones it shows are not exactly obvious to use.

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The whole abandoned mining and mapping is an exciting and interesting subject which is undergoing considerable change.

The CA are still focused on their remit and selling copies of abandonment plans to various other service providers.

In the old days, you'd have an expert who would perform all sorts of operations on a plan to ascertain what was where and then produce a report, which would be backed up by insurance, for the purpose of lending.

Facilitated by the rise of computing (particularly graphics) power, it is possible to manipulate much larger datasets and people are resorting to different ways of cracking the AMR game, which is is where 99% of the "stuff regarding plans" goes towards. At the moment, it is the case that CA deal with coal stuff and various other consultants (search sellers) deal with the non-coal mines.

It isn't just as simple as whacking a photo in photoshop and smearing it around with a mouse, the whole thing has got to be quality assessed, then pinned to a basemap in order to be of use.

Many mines have sheaves of plans and these need to be individually assessed, sorted, pinned and prepared before they form a part of an interactive database.

Since the majority of people seeking to access such data would probably be looking to make a decision on a property regarding lending, it follows they will have copies of their own data (because the CA stuff costs a fortune). It would be hugely costly for the CA to put together a GIS database and then, it would probably require the ability to view individual plans as layers, or to "digitise" a conclusion and then have that as a layer of workings.

I imagine historians and enthusiasts are only really interested in certain areas and are prepared to pay for small amounts of data to process themselves.

I'd much rather handle the old plans than look at some digital summary.

It is a time of huge change and GIS is most certainly the direction it's heading in. However, creating a database is a mammoth task (even for a district) when you consider the process of "sticking a crappy old plan to a map". It's a major headache.

I don't think there is anything commercial in the coal authority creating a database for such a thing. I imagine they will allow a company to do the work for them, and then buy it from the director.

Either way, the actual data is very expensive. There is a fortune to be made in selling map licences, mapping data and mine plans. I wouldn't expect the CA to allow any decent date to be in the public domain, at least georeferenced and "fit for use".

I'll look at it in more detail in due course.

OS are coming along in this department too. Things are changing.....free "viewer" data of a limited size and then big bucks for the big stuff.

I don't think you can beat undertaking the process wholly, as an enthusiast. I suppose it depends whether you are in business to make money, just want to go down a hole, or are a historian. I suppose the best scenario is that you are all three!

Thanks for the replies.

We are in a bit of pickle at the moment. We bought our house in 2009, but before doing had a Mining report, all came back clear, nothing. Now when trying to sell our prospective buyer had a MR done and it came back there were 2 mineshafts, in next door and next door to that. Short story, they pulled out, estate agent said our house is devalued now.

This has really ruined our plans, and finances it seems to be.

Anyroads, out of curiosity, I have bought or obtained, various historic or OS maps from 1860 onwards this last week. Well on all these maps, say in 1885, the mines must of been still working, as it had them down as just "shafts" and the colliery was not "disued" then. All these marking for these working mines are on most of the other later maps I have has "old mine shafts" and "disused".

The the location of all these "OMS" are nowhere near our house on these maps., but the end of the street, we think we know where they are now, there is this bit of wasteland/scrubland that has never been built on ever.

https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/  it appears to be in the same place, nowhere near the mines.

I believe that it would be worth you contacting the Coal Authority.
Give them the references to their submission, your two surveys,and your other data and ask them to explain the discrepancy.

By the way your map references should have two letters in front of them to identify the area. :smartass:
Your direct map link did not work, prehaps just give the post code so that we can look on older maps Etc.

My postcode is deleted.

🅱

Can you post an image of the attached plan?

"We have also purchased the mining report last week, upon hearing this news, to see what is mentioned, it states.....
Mine entries
Within, or within 20 metres of, the boundary of the property there are 2 mine entries, the
approximate positions of which are shown on the attached plan."

Sorry to bother morlock, but where do you live, if that is not being too cheeky. Not in the same town as me???

No problem, I live near Cardiff but I'm also very familiar with the canal from Deepfields Junction to Bradley Pumping Station. No problem if you consider my request too intrusive. Just forget I asked.:flowers:

The general area is riddled with coal workings and they could have all sorts of records, or none.
There is allways a possibility of shafts being plotted in different positions by surveys of dubious quality in the past. (I have seen this at a lead mine.)

The area is shown on the 1901 6inch map below, which is probably the best that is publicly avaliable.
Wolverhampton (or Birmingham) library may have 25inch versions.

http://maps.nls.uk/view/101597516 
Highfields colliery seems to fit

When I was researching Bradley Pumping Station Sandwell Council had a lot of info/maps and it's all catalogued somewhere, ( I'll see if I can find the link).

Would it still be worth querying with the Coal Authoriy?;(

Definitely query it with the CA, given you've previously had a report from them which I presume you paid for - at the very least they should be able to explain the discrepancy. However, I'd also suggest you consider getting a surveyor to accurately plot information from the old maps onto the modern map.

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Can you post an image of the attached plan?

"We have also purchased the mining report last week, upon hearing this news, to see what is mentioned, it states.....
Mine entries
Within, or within 20 metres of, the boundary of the property there are 2 mine entries, the
approximate positions of which are shown on the attached plan."

I have never seen a coal board search. What I have seen are many non-coal searches. Some of them are downright appalling. One of the largest GIS data portals offers a range of search services relating to it's incredible database. Sadly, the mining information has been entered in the most incoherent way, to the point that it's conclusions are at best nebulous and at worst misleading. However, they are probably insured, like everyone else.

What happens in the world of non-coal is that it's basically insurance brokering.

Lenders don't take risks. Banks take pretty much zero risk with their lending. If they do take a risk, it's backed up by someone's PI insurance. So, you do the box ticking exercise and there are 2 potential outcomes. Pass and Fail.

If it's a pass, all is well. (if your house starts to collapse, there will hellup in the form of conveyancerssearch wholesalersearch seller and who neglected to do their job properly).

For workings which are deemed to designate the property a fail, the conveyancer/agent usually recommends a physical investigation to be done. Usually with a drill rig. Cue big drill showing up with a load of pasty powered hillbillies and someone important sat in a deckchair drill a load of different holes to try and pierce the structure. Following a couple of days of noise, floods of inorganic pancake mix and general mess, a report is produced.....this stays attached to the property and is permanent....unlike a mine search.

This report either says "pass" (nothing found) or "fail" and details the problem. The problem itself then informs a structural engineer what solution needs to be employed. At this stage, you have probably got yourself serious expense. (read your insurance small print very very carefully). In fact, read all the small print on any search document and raise an eyebrow.

The upshot of my point is that a desktop search which has turned up a problem is the first step in a process to assess the risk of workings to a property. The next step is probably in the order of £3k for some drilling contractors and a geo to come out and test the place. In the grand scheme of things, this is cheap for what it is and you have a piece of paper to say "my house is OK" rather than anyone else, who has a piece of paper which says "This house is free from mine workings to the degree that is considered an acceptable asset for lending to occur against*"



*Footnote:- Whilst we have busted a bollok to insure there are no workings according to pawing through our huge archive of plans, maps, heresay and previous site investigations, it's quite possible that there are unrecorded workings pretty much anywhere and if your house falls into one of these.....mmmmm sorrry. LOL !!!"

I suppose that the first thing someone would do in this instance is get a second opinion. That would ascertain if the search seller had done their work properly.

Either way, I would expect that a problematic search could be a rarity which some agents/solicitors would find a novelty and be unaware of the next stage in the process. It isn't a case of "my house is now unsaleable" it's merely a drill-it problem. For coal workings, a larger firm in an area of more coal workings will provide information as to what is the next stage for your particular area.

Anyway, we weren't here to talk about mining searches!

Whilst we are here talking about interesting and interactive data, BGS also have a very good mapping "gubbins", there is also borehole data which is worth a look. This includes some coal measures info.

Had enough really.

This is us on the map,

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we still say the mines mentioned are in the bit of wasteland at the top. There is a bungalow there, with some sort of covenant where they cannot build on the land, why though is another matter. But we do not know them well, and it would be cheeky to ask.

You would be advised to read the small print on your report before posting a copy on the open internet.

Many firms indicate they would get quite upset if someone did such a thing. It does inform to their competition how they operate and what standard they are.

If you did such a thing, it would be an idea to de-identify the originator of the report.