I just thought as we seem to have a few interested steam fans on here I would post a pic of my latest aquisition to my LMS Builders Plate collection as it kinda has a nice social commentary attached to the working man of the 1920s.
When the LMS was formed during the grouping in 1924 the decision was taken to back date the buildersplates on the locos... so drawings were issued to the shop floor based on the standard Derby design of builders plates. In St Rollox (now known as Springburn) they issued the drawing to the pattern shop who literally copied the drawing exactly... sadly by all accounts they were illiterate and copied what they saw, and reproduced the long arrow on the drawing being unable to read the note attached to the said arrow 'Insert contractors name here' ..... A fantastic commentary on life at the time...
🔗Personal-Album-856-Image-64610[linkphoto]Personal-Album-856-Image-64610[/linkphoto][/link]

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I'm not so sure about "illiterate".

I've had a fair amount of experience of vintage motorcycles over the years and it's nothing unusual to find sub-contracted castings with various generic quirks of this sort - Blackburne-produced engines parts are particularly well-known for it.

It's simple lack of thought, a quality which I'm afraid our grandfathers displayed in abundance at times.

I was reading Roland Huntford's book about Scott a while ago, and there is reference to one of his ships having a number of serious defects; lack of an effective pump, for one thing, and a serious leak caused by over-boring of some through-bolt holes in the keel, which were simply hidden with washers rather than made good.

These were faults which were apparently known at the time, but it was no-one's business to rectify them; the yard simply did what the client specified from his London office, and sent a dangerously flawed ship to take part in a polar expedition lasting years.

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Dear Iclok, what a coincidence, yes us Derbyshire folk have yet another link 🙂 My paternal grandfather was a pattern maker at the Loco Works in Derby at the time your plate was cast. I can assure you however, that he was far from illiterate! M

At that time there was a general issue with literacy in the works in Glasgow (and on the railway) and this particular guy was known to be illiterate by all accounts and how it was a foundry man who questioned the arrow preventing more being made. (only 4 cast and ever carried so rare rare rare). Most pattern makers would literally make what they saw on the drawings and I have seen this on other plates, but not to this degree... I have a clear copy of the drawing for the plate and no account has been taken of the note, which is clear in big black letters and the arrow has been lifted size for size, there is even a fault in all St Rollox plates in the radius on the top right inner edge again copied over. That said Pattern Makers were senior men who back in 1924 would have come up thru the ranks and would have had their apprenticeship 'on the job', the ability to work to drawing dimensions being the critical taught thing and given the way info was disseminated the Chargehand and the detailmen were probably the best experienced and trained, job cards and traced sections of drawing usually being the chosen method, which was the same even when I was an apprentice in the 80s.
The ability to read was often left to railway mutual improvement groups lead by those who could. These started in the early 1900s and were grudgingly supported by the management.
Even the great GWR Swindon gave us a few interesting nameplates including a SAMPSON amongst others. :lol:

As for Derby dear Sougher, reading AND writing was a pre requisite of even getting a job on the MR in the works or on the footplate, a job at Derby was a prized thing and the MR schooled itts apprentices even from the earliest days.

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