Following a recent "Figure of eight brown trousers moment", a mate of mine is looking for a cheap Petzl Stop. He is on a tight budget. Second hand is fine as long as it isn't too badly worn, he wouldn't expect any guarantees. I have a spare set of bobbins but I'd rather keep them for my own if possible.
Can anybody help? :flowers: PM me if you can. Cheers. :thumbsup:

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Plenty on fleabay including this one which doesn't look too bad at £25 on buy it now

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Petzl-Stop-Descender-/281302542617?pt=UK_SportingGoods_OtherSports&hash=item417ef02919 

Don't want to re-start an old debate, but safety-critical kit second hand to save £3O. Oh dear.

Oh I don't know if its such a bad thing, would probably trust anybody else's gear over the neglected rusty crap I call my own... And that's without even thinking about ropes...

Indeed, theres substantially more paint left on the eBay one than mine has.

Don't want to re-start an old debate, but safety-critical kit second hand to save £3O. Oh dear.

Whilst I wouldn't consider buying a used harness, slings or rope I have bought the odd used jammer (I like Petzl's 1990s jammers with metal catches) and I picked up a very nice rack recently on ebay. I am happy that I can make an informed decision regarding ironwork and I always err on the side of caution - if in doubt bin it and write the cost off to experience.

Don't want to re-start an old debate, but safety-critical kit second hand to save £3O. Oh dear.

Whilst I wouldn't consider buying a used harness, slings or rope I have bought the odd used jammer (I like Petzl's 1990s jammers with metal catches) and I picked up a very nice rack recently on ebay. I am happy that I can make an informed decision regarding ironwork and I always err on the side of caution - if in doubt bin it and write the cost off to experience.

As I was typing out the original thread I thought to myself "How long before someone says...blah blah blah..." etc. This was not meant to start a discussion, it was meant to get a young lad on the dole a cheap descender :lol:
Tamarmole hit the nail on the head. We have been hanging around on these things for years now, long enough to know a good one from a bad one.
Ebay would be my second choice, buying one from someone I know would be my first. Cheers! :flowers:

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A mate's just given me a 'spare' Stop recently that was very old - the metal-gate version. My 'modern' but very hammered Stop jammed last week on two critical pitches, and the black plastic gate/spring was so full with mud and grit I could barely open it - a nightmare getting on and off at rebelays, which were all 'tight ones'.

The old-style metal gate has a larger cutaway, and seems to have a wider opening as a result, though I haven't measured them yet. Also on close examination, my top bobbin was beginning to wear out, whereas this one looked almost brand-new, despite the age of the device.

Anyway, I swapped it out today, and dropped JH shaft at 50m with no problems at all - pleasurable spring in the handle, total lock-off, and very smooth. It just looked knackered, but it wasn't. But I got to look at it carefully beforehand, which obviously isn't possible online. If it looked **** when it arrived, I wouldn't use it, but then you got to try and get a refund...

I know you dont want a debate but common duty of care based my personal experience must prevail.

The bobins of Stops wear, usually at the same rate as your ropes stiffen with age. Fun starts when you buy a new rope. This happened to me about 25 years ago and nearly killed me in Knotlow Engine Shaft. This is not BS.
Best use of Stop is to take the rope through a lock off crab same as you would a bobbin but its no substitute for replacing a worn Stop or at least fitting a new bobbin assy.

The metal gate catch has been replaced with a thicker one for good reason in that if you attach an old design Stop with a 10mm maillon because you dont trust crabs in this role the thing can twist and open the gate. If you have an old Stop try it for yourself.

Maybe the fault of people for not trusting crabs?
I know of 2 instances of crabs failing due to an accidental loading on the gate, one dead, one seriously injured. They can fail in this way even when screwed up, pre empting an obvious reply from somewhere.

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Plenty on fleabay including this one which doesn't look too bad at £25 on buy it now

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Petzl-Stop-Descender-/281302542617?pt=UK_SportingGoods_OtherSports&hash=item417ef02919 

I notice that this has now sold - did anyone here buy it?

The metal gate catch has been replaced with a thicker one for good reason in that if you attach an old design Stop with a 10mm maillon because you dont trust crabs in this role the thing can twist and open the gate. If you have an old Stop try it for yourself.

Maybe the fault of people for not trusting crabs?

This actually happened to me on one of my first SRT trips.

The Mallion somehow twisted relative to the Stop & undid the catch as my bodyweight loaded it. This was at the top of a 100' pitch in Stream Passage Pot.
Smell it? I was sitting in it!

It was " accepted wisdom" at the time (mid 80s) that a 10mm alloy Mallion was used to attach the Stop. No doubt due to the standard work on the subject, Dave Elliots "SRT" recommending it.

I've still got my 10mm alloy as a souvenir!

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Plenty on fleabay including this one which doesn't look too bad at £25 on buy it now

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Petzl-Stop-Descender-/281302542617?pt=UK_SportingGoods_OtherSports&hash=item417ef02919 

I notice that this has now sold - did anyone here buy it?

Not me.....

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The metal gate catch has been replaced with a thicker one for good reason in that if you attach an old design Stop with a 10mm maillon because you dont trust crabs in this role the thing can twist and open the gate. If you have an old Stop try it for yourself.

Maybe the fault of people for not trusting crabs?

This actually happened to me on one of my first SRT trips.

The Mallion somehow twisted relative to the Stop & undid the catch as my bodyweight loaded it. This was at the top of a 100' pitch in Stream Passage Pot.
Smell it? I was sitting in it!

It was " accepted wisdom" at the time (mid 80s) that a 10mm alloy Mallion was used to attach the Stop. No doubt due to the standard work on the subject, Dave Elliots "SRT" recommending it.

I've still got my 10mm alloy as a souvenir!

Erm...head scratcher...? :confused: :blink:

So the end of the Maillon that is at "6 o'clock" turns anti-clockwise to "3 o'clock" and then twists? Then the leverage forces the gate open? I don't have an old style Stop here but I can see how it would happen after a bit of twisting and contorting.

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So the end of the Maillon that is at "6 o'clock" turns anti-clockwise to "3 o'clock" and then twists? Then the leverage forces the gate open?

I've just been trying it out on that Kong Indy descender which has a metal gate similar to the old Stop. And yes, it's possible. The maillon's "nut" can be persuaded to push the gate open. I can't get it to happen at all with a crab as the larger size prevents any twisting as Roy explains.

(I should add, the maillon was a small one - smaller than anyone would think of using on a descender.)

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Wasn't there a load of Chinese copys about a few years ago ?
I'm sure i read about them on here , and how Petzl issued a warning ?

Wasn't there a load of Chinese copys about a few years ago ?
I'm sure i read about them on here , and how Petzl issued a warning ?

Jammers I think, more than descenders?
Mind you, our oriental friends will copy anything, so I wouldn't be at all surprised 🙂

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The metal gate catch has been replaced with a thicker one for good reason in that if you attach an old design Stop with a 10mm maillon because you dont trust crabs in this role the thing can twist and open the gate. If you have an old Stop try it for yourself.

Maybe the fault of people for not trusting crabs?

This actually happened to me on one of my first SRT trips.

The Mallion somehow twisted relative to the Stop & undid the catch as my bodyweight loaded it. This was at the top of a 100' pitch in Stream Passage Pot.
Smell it? I was sitting in it!

It was " accepted wisdom" at the time (mid 80s) that a 10mm alloy Mallion was used to attach the Stop. No doubt due to the standard work on the subject, Dave Elliots "SRT" recommending it.

I've still got my 10mm alloy as a souvenir!

Erm...head scratcher...? :confused: :blink:

So the end of the Maillon that is at "6 o'clock" turns anti-clockwise to "3 o'clock" and then twists? Then the leverage forces the gate open? I don't have an old style Stop here but I can see how it would happen after a bit of twisting and contorting.

You've pretty much described how it can happen.
I've still got my original 85ish stop in the loft - if I remember I'll get it down at the weekend and post some pics of the effect - if I can reproduce it.

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I went to Guangzhou in 09 looking to import some 'stuff' (mega trade fair) I looked at some petzl gear with no logos and my opinion is that the stuff I saw was out of the same tooling. I have handled my gear enough times to know each of the injection moulding marks on the components and each subtle ridge. The beef petzl have is with abuse of their trademark. Go figure.

I hear your comments about metal catches TM

I'd advise this chap to get a rack. Easier to assess and better to use

I'd advise this chap to get a rack. Easier to assess and better to use

Seconded.

Well, as previously mentioned, I've found my old 80s Stop/Mallion arrangement that nearly caused my demise, knockin' on for 30yrs back.
It was very easy to reproduce the unlatching fault on the bench.
To do it for real, you need the Maillion exactly as shown (with the nut to the rear & "up". Then you need to attach the Stop to a long rope, so the weight keeps the stop vertical. Then you need to stand a bit higher, so the Mallion is at over right angles to the Stop.
A bit of wriggling about & when you put your weight on it "Bob nearly isn't your uncle any more!"
This is why you use a Krab not a mallion now!
Here's the photos










Funny how soon I took to using a rack after this.

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