Rigging with bowlines - worrying video

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simonrl
51% (Neutral)
Administration Topic Starter

12 years ago

Rigging with bowlines, without stopper knot...

http://efs.ffspeleo.fr/techniques/noeuds

In French but Google translate makes a halfway decent job of translating.

my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by

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owd git
50.2% (Neutral)
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12 years ago

masses and massesof response and info on u.k.c. site.
not necessarily all usefull, but if snowed in ....
O. G.

Edd
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12 years ago

Very strange rigging that :bored:

'I started reading it with full intention to read it all and then got bored and went and got beer instead!'

chrisataditnow
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12 years ago

Isn't it showing what happens if you do it wrong? ie No stopper knot?

I think? :confused:

If it's raining, put a mountain on your head

christwigg
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12 years ago

"chrisataditnow" wrote:
Isn't it showing what happens if you do it wrong? ie No stopper knot?

I think? :confused:

I don't think a stopper knot would have helped much when it suddenly arrived at high speed after you've just fallen half the height of the pitch.

English version here -

RJV
50.2% (Neutral)
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12 years ago

Chris means a stopper knot on the actual bowline to stop the rope pulling through I think rather than at the end of the rope.

christwigg
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12 years ago

"RJV" wrote:
Chris means a stopper knot on the actual bowline to stop the rope pulling through I think rather than at the end of the rope.

But isn't there a stopper on the French video ?

christwigg
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12 years ago

Actually don't even try to explain because I don't know how to tie a bowline anyway.

On the very rare occasions I rig anything, its always going to be a figure eight, otherwise I let you do it !

RJV
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12 years ago

"christwigg" wrote:

"RJV" wrote:
Chris means a stopper knot on the actual bowline to stop the rope pulling through I think rather than at the end of the rope.

But isn't there a stopper on the French video ?

No idea, the video is blocked. Merely making assumptions based upon previous comments & fulfilling one of the prime purposes of the internet, namely commenting upon things I haven't seen! ::)

simonrl
51% (Neutral)
Administration Topic Starter

12 years ago

#10

There is a UK blog here with photos and a description of the testing:

http://www.peakinstruction.co.uk/blog/

my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by

christwigg
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12 years ago

#11

I guess if you just remember one thing, it's to clip your cowstail into both loops if a bowline is being used.

RJV
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12 years ago

#12

Never use bowlines personally.
Being entirely self-taught and very lazy learnt the standard variations on a fig 8 and an alpine butterfly when I got my first rope and never bothered to think about learning anymore since given I've never found a situation when one of them wouldn't suffice.

Incidentally ChrisT, I think it was a bowline on the bight that made Blackshiver exit Gaping Gill main shaft in a brown cloud when we did it a few years back...

pwhole
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12 years ago

#13

Yeah, I can't remember how to tie a bowline either, and from what I remember it's not that strong a knot anyway. My big book of knots recommends using a stopper knot for 'added security', which suggests it's not that good on its own for critical loads. I'm not even that keen on Alpine Butterflies to be honest, as they look awfully bad for the rope to me, especially when used as the main Y-hang knot.

I've grown up a fisherman, and always aimed to tie knots that won't weaken the line - any type of overhand/crush knot is pretty much forbidden on nylon monofilament, though braided ropes are obviously tougher. Not so bad with kevlar/spectra lines, but even so, barrel and figure 8s are still the preferred types. Losing a fish is bad enough, but losing it with a metre or so of line trailing after it is just plain wrong.

AR
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12 years ago

#14

The standard bowline is pretty strong, but only under load and it can slip if not loaded which is why it should have a stopper knot on it. I quite often use it as a back belay knot, but secure the loose end with a half-barrel to ensure it can't slip back.

The issue referred to is with the bowline on a bight when used as a y-hang knot, it seems not clipping into both loops when approaching the pitch head loads it in such a way that it can slip 😮

Follow the horses, Johnny my laddie, follow the horses canny lad-oh!

christwigg
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12 years ago

#15

"RJV" wrote:
I've never found a situation when one of them wouldn't suffice.

I've always been 100% behind keeping it simple. Why learn 20 special knots you use occasionally and might get wrong when you can do the important ones right all the time

"RJV" wrote:

I think it was a bowline on the bight that made Blackshiver exit Gaping Gill main shaft in a brown cloud when we did it a few years back...

Well exactly, you were only enquiring as to the nature of the knot you had not seen before.

Just because he misinterpreted your question and tone of voice when you said.

"What type of knot do you call THAT ?" as he leant back over the main shaft :lol:

jcam
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12 years ago

#16

A bowline is a very simple knot to tie,tree surgeons use them all the time. It is also very easy to tie one the wrong way which is not that apparent when looking at it. Unlike a figure of eight,which when tied wrong, looks wrong. At the end of the day it is what you are comfortable with. I used a bowline and a bowline on a bight Y hang for that pitch in Wheal flats Chris. That one where you were more than happy for me to go down and not because of the knots i was using me thinks. 😉 :lol:

christwigg
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12 years ago

#17

"jcam" wrote:
That one where you were more than happy for me to go down and not because of the knots i was using me thinks. 😉 :lol:

Yeah, I was just making sure it was 100% safe for you by keeping an eye it rather than going down the pitch.
:angel:

kroca
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12 years ago

#18

A bowline with a half hitch has served me well for 50 years, you can undo it when wet and frozen . 🙂