Hymac...

You asked how these work? just the same as a conventional steam locomotive but without a fire in a traditional boiler. a steam or compressed air receiver is used instead charged from a static air or steam generating plant. The receiver is often bigger in diameter than a normal boiler as no saddle tank or coal bunker is necessary. The locomotive driver then drives the loco pretty much the same as any normal loco except that once pressure reaches a certain level the loco has to be recharged with air or steam. valve gear pretty much the same as where the general lubrication and mechanics. Very popular in paper mills, oil refinerys and explosive factories prior to other forms of prime mover.
EDIT- on steam fireless locomotives they are often heavily insulated for obvious reasons hence they look a little peculiar!!

Photograph:

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Did they give much running time?
They always struck me as like the last gasps of a loco that the fire had been dropped from!

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Thats about right from what I'm told and they were never used in any heavy applications... it depends how hard they were worked as to how long they lasted.... but I am told this wasn't long... even if worked very lightly.

If you think these are odd have a look athttp://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/soda/soda.htm 

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I understood that theycould last several hours at a time for short shunting duties.

They worked on the principle of very high pressure water not turning into steam until pressure lowers. They were partly (I think just over half) filled (charged) with super high pressure heated water. As the pressure dropped as steam was used so more water boiled off as steam. It was able to continue doing that until virtually all of the water had boiled off and the pressure dropped to an unusable pressure.

The oft quoted "Water boils at 100 deg C / 212 deg F" is only correct if you add the words "at sea level". Any lower (i. e. down a very deep mine or in a pressure vessel the boiling point increases. Any higher (altitude) and the water boils at a lower temperature.

The oft quoted "Water boils at 100 deg C / 121 deg F" is only correct if you add the words "at sea level". Any lower (i. e. down a very deep mine or in a pressure vessel the boiling point increases. Any higher (altitude) and the water boils at a lower temperature.

Slip of the fingers, there - it's 212 degrees F.
Water only boils at 100C at normal atmospheric pressure (NTP or STP as it was known in school science lessons). From memory, at 40PIS, the boiling point is nearer 130C.

The oft quoted "Water boils at 100 deg C / 121 deg F" is only correct if you add the words "at sea level". Any lower (i. e. down a very deep mine or in a pressure vessel the boiling point increases. Any higher (altitude) and the water boils at a lower temperature.

Slip of the fingers, there - it's 212 degrees F.
Water only boils at 100C at normal atmospheric pressure (NTP or STP as it was known in school science lessons). From memory, at 40PIS, the boiling point is nearer 130C.

Oops, quite correct, brain going faster than fingers! Yes, that was the point I was making altitude affecting the atmospheric pressure. I have a table somewhere showing the figures.

An interesting machine in the photo Iclok, is it one of the narrow gauge compressed air mines locos in North America?

Cheers

Alan

Carnkie found the pic on Wiki and it is Nth American...

As for duration of use on fireless steam I am told by friends on light shunting duties in continuous use a few hours was all they would get, less than half a shift. Light occasional shunting would extend the availability perhaps to a shift... but a friend in the ILS said these locos never quite met the aspirations of the users in many cases.

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The Borsig fireless locomotive from Library of Congress collection.
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Apparently there are about 30 preserved in Britain but I'm open to correction on this. 🙂
http://www.postmaster.co.uk/fs/kenavon/Public//Fireless.txt 

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Well, very interesting to learn about this system. I knew that you could test or work a steam engine with compressed air or stored steam, but did not know of the existance of what has been shown here.
Which goes to show that an old steam engine on display at a museum could be made to work with compressed air for show purposes.
That old steam crane at Dinorwig slate museum could have been made to work with compressed air, but would take a bit of work to get it operating now as it has been out in the rain for quite some time.

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I recently restored these pictures for a mate and it shows an ex works pic of a British Built Fireless at Pecketts and a couple of it on test in the yard... all are very rare, for one its a fireless and two its at Pecketts!! 🙂 :thumbup:
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Wonderful pictures Iclok. The loco was Peckett's only fireless & worked for the Co-op at Irlam near Manchester. It still exists in preservation. It was originally in a park at Irlam but I think that it has been moved elsewhere now.

Alan

I just restored a load of Peckett pictures for the owner of the Peckett company (a close friend)... I have a rebuilt Peckett plate on the wall and several other Peckett bits etc in my care..... nice engines though I do like my Avonsides too and have 'Teversal' nameplate on the lounge wall ... from the Colliery of that name! 🙂

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I remember being really puzzled by the first fireless I ever saw (in the old sidings at the bottom of Foxfield colliery). In British industry, firelesses were a good choice for shunting in factories that had high-pressure static boilers and pipework, as they were as close to free power as you could get. And with steam as the only emission directly from the loco they were clean and spark-free - handy in paper mills, explosive factories, etc. Similarly, compressed air locos made good sense in locations (mostly mines in the USA) that had compressed air laid in.

The East Germans got the fireless down to a fine art, and Meiningen Works (the place that built Tornado's boiler) was building them in quantity well into the 1980s. A number are still at work in industry, have a look at: http://www.internationalsteam.co.uk/trains/fireless01.htm 

Wonderful pictures Iclok. The loco was Peckett's only fireless & worked for the Co-op at Irlam near Manchester. It still exists in preservation. It was originally in a park at Irlam but I think that it has been moved elsewhere now.

Alan

Certainly was there:
http://www.postmaster.co.uk/~kenavon/150241/page_8.html 

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The East Germans got the fireless down to a fine art, and Meiningen Works (the place that built Tornado's boiler) was building them in quantity well into the 1980s. A number are still at work in industry, have a look at: http://www.internationalsteam.co.uk/trains/fireless01.htm 

According to the link I posted in the previous post they built over 200 between 84 and 88.

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Locomotive charging compressor

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Photo' 1 A pair of Baldwins
2 HK Porter & Co B_P_O class
3 HK Porter & Co B-PP-O class
4 HK Porter & Co C- PP class
5 HK Porter & Co Loco' for small scale work
6 HK Porter & Co C-5-Ps-0 class
7 HK Porter & Co B-PP-T class ( inside cylinder )

Loco's charged to a pressure of 700 - 900 psi Pipeline pressure
1,000-1200 psi

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Bl**dy Hell... thats quite a collection... Like the multi cylinder one...

Any Gen on these you can give such pressures, operating times etc... fascinting machines! :thumbsup:

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