carnkie
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16 years ago
The probable cause of the Sago Mine disaster a couple of years ago was lightning strikes, although this isn't absolutely certain. The disaster was caused by an explosion of methane in a sealed section of the mine that blew away the seals and flooded the working area with CO. The question is could lighning be the ignition factor and how? From the official report.

Lightning strikes were recorded near the mine at approximately the same time as a seismic event occurring in the area and the initial alarm from the mine’s atmospheric monitoring system (AMS). MSHA contracted with Sandia corporation, the operator of the Sandia National Laboratories (Sandia), to perform modeling and testing to ascertain if it was possible for lightning to cause
electrical energy to enter the mine and cause an explosion. Sandia determined that a lightning strike could create enough energy in the sealed area to initiate an
arc. Lightning has been determined to be the most likely ignition source.


Have there been other cases where lightning is thought to be the ignition source?
The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.
AR
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16 years ago
Wasn't lightning thought to be the cause of one of the two Messines ridge mines that hadn't been used in WW1 going bang?
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carnkie
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16 years ago
I believe you are correct. According to Wiki On 17 July 1955, a lightning strike set off one of the remaining mines.
It's still a bit odd that lightning could be the ignition factor at Sago. I believe all sorts of theories were considered including old cables acting as a conduit. But it would appear that intense lightning can generate enough energy for this to suffice. I think the jury is still out but everything else has been discounted.
The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.
tiger99
16 years ago
One of the things I learned on an EMC and lightning protection course is that when driving some of the tunnels through the Alps, black powder fuses rather than electric detonators had to be used, as the fairly frequent lightning strikes on the mountain above would be sufficient to set off an electric detonator.

The problem is that the rock is not particularly conductive electrically, and when a pulse of up to 400,000 amps is applied, large voltage gradients arise throughout the mass. It is possible that the lowest-resistance path to the general mass of the earth may be through some of the equipment in the tunnel. If not, there is radiated coupling to think about, as the rock provides poor screening.

No risk at Boulby of course. Sea water attenuates at, if I remember correctly, 180dB per metre, so the radiated component will quickly disappear. Pure resistive effects will cause a possibly lethal voltage gradient in the water for some distance, but at the sea bed, and below lots of rock cover, I doubt that there is an instrument sensitive enough to detect a lightning strike at the surface, except by whatever is induced in the inevitable power cables etc, which run from the surface.

But in a thunderstorm, you can't necessarily enter an old mine or cave and obtain complete protection from lightning. If there is lots of conductive cover (soil and clay) it will be ok, but if in rock with low water content, probably not. But it is still somewhat safer than being out in the open.
Knocker
16 years ago
Just watching a programme on the Messines Ridge Mines, interesting
carnkie
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16 years ago
Sure is. Didn't see the programme but this from Martin Gibert's "First World War".
Nineteen mines were exploded under the German front line, with a total explosive power of five hundred tons. It had taken British, Canadian and Australian tunnellers more than six months to dig the shafts, one of which was 2,000 feet long. The deepest of the mines were placed a hundred feet below the German trenches. One of the explosions, at Spanbroekmolen, blew a crater 430 feet in diameter. Two mines failed to explode: one of them was deliberately detonated in 1955, the other remains underground somewhere to the north-east of Ploegsteert Wood, its exact position. unknown, exciting periodic local nervousness, as I found on my own visits to the area in 1970 and 1971.
The effect of the explosions at Messines was devastating. Ten thousand German soldiers are thought to have been killed outright or buried alive.. Thousands more were stunned and dazed, and 7,354 taken prisoner.


Brings into doubt the lightning theory.

Also of course it wasn't new. Siege of Petersburg although eventually that was a complete cock up.
The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.
Knocker
16 years ago
The programme was about the lost mines, it ceratinly put across that the 1955 explosion ws down to lightening and after watching what they found I believe it.

They found two mines that hadn't been recorded, one of them had 6000lbs of explosive, with the primers, dets and electric det wire all the way back all attached - a lightning storm could easily set it off.

One of the guys in the programme was killed in another trip to find a mine in the forest, they were digging their way through and the roof collapsed.

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