Spam
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16 years ago
Hey. Does anyone know if this is the same as Hilderston mine and is an error with the map or is this a separate mine?

Thanks for your help, Spam.
tiger99
16 years ago
The King Jamie's Silver Mine grid ref would seem to be wrong. Maybe there is a limestone mine there, which has confused someone?

Hilderstone is on the West side of Cairnpapple, and there is supposedly an adit, which I have never been able to find, on the East side. That would be in or near the flooded quarry, at least that is where I looked. I spent ages looking, way back in 1967. No internet to help!

I will hopefully add some more tomorrow. The book which hopefully gives the definitive position of Hilderston is at home, and I am not.

I think King Jamie's and Hilderston are the same mine. See here http://www.sat.dundee.ac.uk/arb/scotland/mines_biblio.html  which is clearly the same mine but in the wrong place.

Alan
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16 years ago
Ah, thank you. That will save me a day of looking for something that isn't there. And yes there is an adit on the western bank of the flooded quarry. The water level has drop significantly over the last few years so it may be safe to presume it was under water when you went to find it.

Thank you for your help Alan, Spam.
tiger99
16 years ago
Finally found the book. It is "Lothian Geology An Excursion Guide" by A D McAdam & E N K Clarkson, ISBN 0 904440 06 0.

Here is what it says:


******************************************************

7. Hilderston Mine: Silver-Lead-Zinc Mineralisation

Park in the lay-by for Cairnpapple at the top of the hill (989 718). Immediately west of the road, the quartz-dolerite sill of localities 3 and 6 crops out forming a good N-S feature some 40m wide. The sill dips steeply to the east as at The Knock, and is really a ****-like step between levels of sill. A diversion may be made at this point to the bronze-age burial mound of Cairnpapple Hill, 250m to the south-west, which is also a good viewpoint.

Folow the sill/**** southward into the valley to the ruins of Windywa's which are on the site of the original 17th century Hilderston silver mine (Cadell 1925; Stephenson 1983). The mine was in operation initially from 1606 to 1614 but made little or no profit after the first two years (i.e. after it had been 'nationalised' by King James VI). The silver occurred in a vein as filaments of native silver in a gangue of baryte and niccolite. The vein was located on the margin of a thin E-W dolerite **** which cut sandstones and siltstones above the Petershill Limestone. The economic vein extended for only 80 m to the east of the N-S ****/sill and for 18 m below the surface. In the 18th century the mine was reopened and worked for lead and zinc which occurred within a baryte and calcite gangue at deeper levels, where the vein cut the Petershill Limestone. A second, much longer vein, some 60 m to the north, was also worked at this time, but this phase of working ceased in 1722. The original workings wree re-excavated during the period 1865 to 1873 using money from the sale of the niccolite and again from 1896 to 1898. However, no further economic deposits of silver or lead were discovered.

The full list of known minerals from the mine is: baryte, calcite, dolomite, quartz, galena, sphalerite, niccolite, erythrite (nickel bloom), annabergite (solid hydrocarbon) and native silver. Most of these, with the exception of the nickel, cobalt and silver minerals, have been obtained recently from the waste heaps.

Three depressions close to the road at Windywa's mark the site of the main group of 17th century shafts. A large mound in the field east of the road marks the main 18th century shaft on the northern lead vein. The 1873 shaft is probably marked by a pile of debris, crescentic in plan, south of the burn and 35 m east of the road. Two adits in the west wall of the flooded Silvermines quarry mark two branches of the northern lead vein, probably excavated in the 19th century. If the water level is low, these adits can be examined. Do not enter them. Thin calcite veins with galena can be seen cutting the sandstone roof of the northernmost one.

The Petershill Limestone is no longer visible in the quarries, but the overlying clastic sediments can be examined in the cut to the south. Here an upward-coarsening sequence of clasyic sediments can be seen with mudstone at the base of the quarry, gradually passing upwards to sandstone at the top. Fallen sandstone blocks at the foot of the quarry show good examples of trace fossils, both burrows and feeding trails. This type of upward-coarsening succession is typical of that associated with deltaic sedimentation. A thin N-S tholeiite **** in the west wall of the southern quarry is altered to 'white trap' at its northern end.

**********************************************************

Well, that does seem to be King Jamie's mine, and there should be two adits.

Just in case there are any copyright fascists reading this, I would point out that short extracts from a work are permitted, for purposes such as criticism. This being a mine exploration forum, there is one sentence which I think we will criticise.....

But there are anomalies. The shaft at 297912,671491
on the 25000 map on Streetmap, surely one of the silver shafts, is shown as "Old Coal Pit" on old-maps.co.uk, as are those around Ballencrief mains to the west. But someweere else, I read a while back that that is the location of the silver mine. I will try to find that article.

Alan
tiger99
16 years ago
I see that there is a naughty word detector in use, which does not like the geologists's term d-y-k-e. Don't know why there is a smiley corrupting the grid ref (probably my bad typing), but the ref should be 989 718.
tiger99
16 years ago
Just occurred to me, there is probably coal not very far away, so it may be advisable to use some kind of gas detector. We probably don't bother with those in the typical metal mine, but this one may be different, and we don't want another tragedy.
tiger99
16 years ago
This link http://www.sasaa.co.uk/case%20studies%209.htm  is quite interesting, and shows that it was coal miners who found the silver.
rhychydwr
16 years ago
Hilderston Lead Mine NGR NS 992 716 Landranger 65 Cairnapple Hill, Linlithgow
aka Hilderstone. Although situated close to the site of medieval silver mining, this adit is thought to be an attempt to gain lead or other minerals from the area at a later date. This mine lies on the west side of a small lake, itself formed in open cast limestone workings, beside a minor road running from Bathgate north to Cairnpapple Hill. Entrance will sump in very wet conditions. The mine consists of a waterlogged walking size passage for 100 metres to a fork where side routes end in chokes. The going becomes neck deep in water toward the back of the mine. One for the “enthusiast” - Very Wet
Holliday, J. 1965 The History of Hilderston Silver Mine. GSG 1st Series 2 3 5
Jeffreys, A.L. 1964 Hilderston Silver'Mine. GSG 1st Series 2 (l)3
Jeffreys, A.L. 2000 Hilderston. GSG 3rd Series 5 (4) 10
Jeffreys, Alan 2008 Mines in Scotland 33
Landless 30
Wilson 1921 61-62

GSG = Grampian Speleological Group Bulletin.

Cutting coal in my spare time.
tiger99
16 years ago
So it seems as if there is only one adit visible now. Maybe the other is still submerged?

Also it looks as if the silver mine itself is probably inaccessible, unless someone wants to dig out the old shafts.

We do now seem to have agreement from several sources as to the location, and the original grid ref. was wrong.

Must have a look next time I am in the area, but I don't think I will be going underground, as the conditions sound quite horrid. Of course, near the end of a long, hot, dry summer it may improve.

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