dwarrowdelf
12 years ago
Sometime ago I saw a photograph showing the chamber 34 incline after dewatering had taken place in the Oakeley pit. ( sometime in 2011, I think ) revealing a "hole in the floor" some way below floor G. This being the point where the incline narrows on it's way down from H to I
I was wondering if this "hole in the floor" indicates an extension of the incline at a later date?

Thinking of the scenario in Cwmorthin, where the back vein incline was effectively extended by construction of the chamber 1 west E-G incline, presumably it was constructed in the neighbouring chamber to avoid disruption to the main back vein incline.
If the chamber 34 incline "hole in floor" represents an extension, why is it not also in a nearby chamber?

Or is there another reason, eg geology of the rock though which the incline passes, below floor H?
'I wonder how many breakfasts, and other meals we have missed inside that nasty clockless, timeless hole?'

'The Hobbit'
J R R Tolkien.
simonrl
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12 years ago
This photo?

🔗Floor-H-Image-63837[linkphoto]Floor-H-Image-63837[/linkphoto][/link]

That was two chamber further east of the Ch 34 incline - if memory serves - same chamber as the stairs. I assumed it was a roofing shaft.

Ch 34 incline continues down one more floor to I.

Hope that helps!
my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by
dwarrowdelf
12 years ago
Interesting photo, Simon, but not the one I was referring to. The photo is by "Vanoord" and I am going to try to link it here

"http://www.aditnow.co.uk/supersize/Cwmorthin-Slate-Mine-User-Album-Image-49761/


Just a wild guess, but looking at the photo again it almost looks as if the main incline has been extended up from a feature that looks as if it was originally a roofing/ventilation shaft
'I wonder how many breakfasts, and other meals we have missed inside that nasty clockless, timeless hole?'

'The Hobbit'
J R R Tolkien.
Vanoord
12 years ago
I would suspect that the lower incline was driven down through the floor of a level.


Might need Graham's input on this one but my suspicion would be that this was done to gain another access to bring slate upwards as work progressed not new territory under Cwmorthin.

If my memory serveds me correctly, there are another couple of inclines in the combined workings where the lower part of the incline is of a much smaller bore - if my memory serves me correctly, the lower section of the OV incline and the (abortive) continuation (a chamber over) of the BV incline, although there may be at least one other.

It may be that this design reflects later working practices, ie that inclines were used solely for transport whilst the movement of people was a chamber or two over; whereas earlier the inclines were built of a larger cross-section as they were also intended to be used for foot traffic.

That could be down to increased reliability of inclines (ie the space to re-rail was no longer such a necessity), elves and safety (prevent people being crushed on inclines) or merely that whoever was in charge had different ideas - which I'd probably favour.

One further consideration might be that there would have been no need to maintain an access for people as this would have been provided much closer to the Oakeley pit, but that doesn't negate the requirement to move between floors at that particular end of the quarry - and given that management was concerned, I reckon they'd prefer not be be squashed!

Thinking on, there are various stairways in parallel to the narrow-bore incline in that area of Oakeley, so there may be some credence in the idea that someone had decided that people and inclines didn't mix - and in that case there was no need to have full-size chambers to run the inclines in.

Conversely, the rock around the incline was probably perfectly useful had it been quarried, so it's slightly odd why it wasn't...

At this juncture, I fear I'm starting to go round in circles?!
Hello again darkness, my old friend...
dwarrowdelf
12 years ago
Further to Vanoord's idea that the narrow inclines were for haulage only, I have always wondered how the isolated chambers at the base of the chamber 1 west EG incline in the back vein were worked, as there appears to be no alternative means of access. I can only think that the workforce walked on the incline, when the haulage was stopped at specific times. Not an ideal state of affairs if this was the case, and I should imagine, very dangerous/impossible when the incline was in operation.

I't is my understanding that the Oakeley Z chambers were ultimately intended to link up with the isolated workings served by the EG incline: - looking at the Cwmorthin plan, it may have been possible to link from chamber Z44 to the east with Z46/Z47 at the base of the incline, thus allowing workers access via a manway through the roofing shaft connecting Z44 to chamber 4 east above, where the water drains down to G level today.

At least that's my theory based on the plan.
On second thoughts, would it have been feasible to convert this shaft into a manway? (I've only ever had a quick look from the top)

As it happened the connection along G was never made.

By the way, is it possible to get to Z44 from the Oakeley old vein below Cwmorthin and the chamber 34 incline area?
'I wonder how many breakfasts, and other meals we have missed inside that nasty clockless, timeless hole?'

'The Hobbit'
J R R Tolkien.
grahami
12 years ago
I'll come back on this when a get a mo (puppy sitting at the moment) - but briefly, yes, it was a reccomendation that wherever possible separate pathways for men should be made away from the inclines so that men did not have to traverse the incline when wagons were going up and down. there were, in fact frequent accidents when the wagons derailed!

There was the intention of extending the CH 34 incline down to H, but I don't think it was actually completed, although the shaft is, I think, present.

Cheers

Grahami
The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.
Donstuart
12 years ago
"dwarrowdelf" wrote:


By the way, is it possible to get to Z44 from the Oakeley old vein below Cwmorthin and the chamber 34 incline area?



Go down the Ch.34 Incline to G Floor, turn left & after about two or three chambers there will be water running down a roofing shaft (on the right) down towards H Floor. This is the water from Cwm Back Vein so just keep following it back & you will end up in Z44.
Ian A
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12 years ago
Dwarrowdelf - I have got this really weird feeling that I was in Cwmorthin today with you discussing this exact issue ... even think you were showing me a map .... :blink: :blink: :blink:

It was you wasn't it ? :sneaky:

(I guess you can't answer because you are currently away from home )

Ian
A door, once opened, may be stepped through in either direction.
dwarrowdelf
11 years ago
"Ian A" wrote:

Dwarrowdelf - I have got this really weird feeling that I was in Cwmorthin today with you discussing this exact issue ... even think you were showing me a map .... :blink: :blink: :blink:

It was you wasn't it ? :sneaky:

(I guess you can't answer because you are currently away from home )

Ian




Yes, that's me. A great day on Sunday, looking at the modified round trip complete with ladder etc. Enjoyed the discussions, and always have great fun with the map!
:)


'I wonder how many breakfasts, and other meals we have missed inside that nasty clockless, timeless hole?'

'The Hobbit'
J R R Tolkien.

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