so... there is a relationship between the Braich Goch operation and FoC?

No relationship whatsoever. Different people doing different things in different places.

so... there is a relationship between the Braich Goch operation and FoC? If I read this correctly, there is a speculative venture involving an existing attraction attempting to expand its operations to a new site, and in doing so, soliciting donations and/or volunteer labour in the manner of, say, a preserved railway?

No, no connection at all with Braich Goch.
Its just a comparison, the adventure trips there are completely unrelated to the Cwmorthin trips, similar activities but different and unrelated companies.

Braich Goch is the mine in which Corris Mine Explorers operate, which also houses King Arthur's Labyrinth.

Neither of these have anything to do with Cwmorthin.


To recap:

Friends of Cwmorthin (FoC) was established in around 2006 when the adit partially collapsed:

🔗Cwmorthin-Floor-1-Lake-Level-Adit-Image-63338[linkphoto]Cwmorthin-Floor-1-Lake-Level-Adit-Image-63338[/linkphoto][/link]

FoC was born out of a group of people who got together to repair the adit and re-prop it.

The landowner has since requested that the adit be gated to prevent access by kids, livestock and the unwary and this was a condition of the agreement with FoC.

[photo]Cwmorthin-Floor-1-Lake-Level-Adit-Image-63343[/photo]

[photo]Cwmorthin-Floor-1-Lake-Level-Adit-Image-63352[/photo]


Since the re-timbering work was undertaken, a few other projects have been carried out, including repairing the steps in the chambers adjacent to the Back Vein Incline:

[photo]Cwmorthin-Work-Weekends-Image-63332[/photo]


Everything done in Cwmorthin up to now has been voluntary and there has been no commercial operation in there to date, be it tours, adventure courses or even mining-related.

The recent change is that a commercial operation, providing adventure tours, will be carried out in the mine from next year - the operator will be responsible for paying the costs of his lease to the farmer. Presumably this replaces the previous agreement that FoC had.

The commercial operator has been operating underground trips in Rhiwbach slate mine, a few miles away, for the last couple of years but has not been doing anything in Cwmorthin other than some work with the BBC earlier this year.

The issue, really, is the future standing of FoC - plus where the boundary lies between works to be undertaken by the commercial operator and/or FoC.

At the moment, there's a good basis for a long-term access agreement for all - something that wasn't looking too great a few months ago.

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The generator issue is entirely seperate from FoC and I know very little about the matter. I believe Vanoord is correct however.

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I thought the generator was purchased under the "umbrella" of the FoC? That was certainly the impression given at the
time when donations for it's purchase were asked for.

I wondered what happened to the generator.
I thought it belonged to FOC because I donated a dynamo and a voltage regulator for the engine of which I gave to Miles.
There was a lot of discussion on the matter on the forum at the time. How to get it to Cwmorthin. Where to locate it etc.
But correct me if I am wrong.

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The generator issue is entirely seperate from FoC and I know very little about the matter. I believe Vanoord is correct however.

.

I thought the generator was purchased under the "umbrella" of the FoC? That was certainly the impression given at the
time when donations for it's purchase were asked for.

I wondered what happened to the generator.
I thought it belonged to FOC because I donated a dynamo and a voltage regulator for the engine of which I gave to Miles.
There was a lot of discussion on the matter on the forum at the time. How to get it to Cwmorthin. Where to locate it etc.
But correct me if I am wrong.

You'd need to talk to Miles or Simply Exploring to get the details to be honest.
As I've previously said I haven't had anything to do with the generator.
I'd have to trawl back through posts and threads from back then but as I recall it was made pretty clear that it was a project above and beyond the FoC at that time.
Some of the same people (and others) involved but not directly part of the FoC activities.

As far as I am aware no satisfactory plan could be devised to either get the generator up there or house it once there.

The issue, really, is the future standing of FoC - plus where the boundary lies between works to be undertaken by the commercial operator and/or FoC.

At the moment, there's a good basis for a long-term access agreement for all - something that wasn't looking too great a few months ago.

A pretty accurate description of events there Vanoord!
To be entirely frank, we haven't worked out a lot of the details yet.
Overall the current situation is much the same as when the previous lease owner allowed us to continue access but this time around there is a formal written agreement to place access control in the hand of FoC

As to works in Cwmorthin, obviously anything done for adventure activity purposes is nothing to do with FoC. Its upto them to fund and apply anything they want doing.

Adit repairs etc I would imagine will be done in the time honoured fashion, interested parties will turn up and do whats necessary.
If anyone is not comfortable with the lease owner benefiting in kind from that (ie continued access) then they aren't obligated to be involved in anyway at all.
If I'm entirely honest I'm quite content either way, my interests lie in preserving access and not arguing over who gets the best deal out of it.

In short, if its a dilema for anyone then they need not involve themselves. They can however continue to visit whenever they chose.

It could be viewed that general access is a necessary side effect of the commercial agreement.

The generator issue is entirely seperate from FoC and I know very little about the matter. I believe Vanoord is correct however.

.

I thought the generator was purchased under the "umbrella" of the FoC? That was certainly the impression given at the
time when donations for it's purchase were asked for.

I wondered what happened to the generator.
I thought it belonged to FOC because I donated a dynamo and a voltage regulator for the engine of which I gave to Miles.
There was a lot of discussion on the matter on the forum at the time. How to get it to Cwmorthin. Where to locate it etc.
But correct me if I am wrong.

You'd need to talk to Miles or Simply Exploring to get the details to be honest.
As I've previously said I haven't had anything to do with the generator.
I'd have to trawl back through posts and threads from back then but as I recall it was made pretty clear that it was a project above and beyond the FoC at that time.
Some of the same people (and others) involved but not directly part of the FoC activities.

As far as I am aware no satisfactory plan could be devised to either get the generator up there or house it once there.

Thanks Jagman. I was just interested to what happened to it as I am a bit of a nut on old machinery etc.
Hope it did not go to scrap given the £175 per ton at present on steel. Copper is I think approx £3 per kg.
It was an obsolete machine with not the best of diesel engines. The generator part probely would have given a lot of problems in the damp underground climate anyway.
The discussions were on ME forum if I remember correctly.

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to be honest, I can see why the various rumours and grumblings about "hidden agenda" etc have become current.

It's difficult to see how things could otherwise have progressed, but I have to say from experience that the combination of self-appointed groups, lack of structure, donations and indeterminate third-party funds is bound to produce mutterings of this sort.

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The generator issue is entirely seperate from FoC and I know very little about the matter. I believe Vanoord is correct however.

.

I thought the generator was purchased under the "umbrella" of the FoC? That was certainly the impression given at the
time when donations for it's purchase were asked for.

I wondered what happened to the generator.
I thought it belonged to FOC because I donated a dynamo and a voltage regulator for the engine of which I gave to Miles.
There was a lot of discussion on the matter on the forum at the time. How to get it to Cwmorthin. Where to locate it etc.
But correct me if I am wrong.

You'd need to talk to Miles or Simply Exploring to get the details to be honest.
As I've previously said I haven't had anything to do with the generator.
I'd have to trawl back through posts and threads from back then but as I recall it was made pretty clear that it was a project above and beyond the FoC at that time.
Some of the same people (and others) involved but not directly part of the FoC activities.

As far as I am aware no satisfactory plan could be devised to either get the generator up there or house it once there.

Thanks Jagman. I was just interested to what happened to it as I am a bit of a nut on old machinery etc.
Hope it did not go to scrap given the £175 per ton at present on steel. Copper is I think approx £3 per kg.
It was an obsolete machine with not the best of diesel engines. The generator part probely would have given a lot of problems in the damp underground climate anyway.
The discussions were on ME forum if I remember correctly.

Forgive me if i am wrong but i remember reading a thread a while ago on ME that discussed the generator being sold. So am guessing it wasnt scrapped 🙂

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Ay, I believe it was sold and the money put in the pot?

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I think so. The thread was deleted a while ago so cant find the details. Am sure one of the FoC will be able to provide info if its needed :flowers:

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The generator indeed was sold last summer for the same amount that was paid for it. The funds are in the FOC bank account.

I would like to make things very clear that the generator was never paid for by FOC funds. It was a result of discussion about generators and was funded by myself and Miles a handful of other people.
So any notion that we wasted money on a generator for a toy or any other purpose is just rubbish.

The generator never got installed for one reason or the other and with the long period of red tape holding us up it was decided that it should be sold and maybe looked at another time.

I hope this clears up the generator issue :surrender:

I want to thank Jagman for answering our questions regarding all this...... time and again you answer the same things often putting it in different ways. You have listened to us, something that on other forums does not always occur. Thank you also for not 'jumping' on us when some clarity into all this was injected in.

We probably all have many more questions and concerns for you though.

Also, apologies if you felt I jumped down your throat earlier, :oops: it was not meant that way - i still have a lot of respect for you.

Anyway... Im cr*p with words, but wanted to say thankyou from everyone I guess 😞

😞 🙂

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http://cwmorthin.co.uk/  is back up.

Was quite interested to see 'look to provide access to currently inaccessible sections by the installation of static-lines' as one of the long term goals.

I want to thank Jagman for answering our questions regarding all this...... time and again you answer the same things often putting it in different ways. You have listened to us, something that on other forums does not always occur. Thank you also for not 'jumping' on us when some clarity into all this was injected in.

We probably all have many more questions and concerns for you though.

Also, apologies if you felt I jumped down your throat earlier, :oops: it was not meant that way - i still have a lot of respect for you.

Anyway... Im cr*p with words, but wanted to say thankyou from everyone I guess 😞

😞 🙂

Indeed, Jagman is well respected by us all. A real Gent.

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