News has just been posted on the Penrhyn Railway website http://www.penrhynrailway.co.uk  (then Latest News) that planning permission has been granted for the rebuilding of the first stage of the PR as a demonstration railway.
Work will begin very soon as all the major materials and equipment are ready and waiting.

Penrhynman

Thanks for posting this - it got me to have another look at the PR site. Even better, saw the link for the book on DeWinton's :
http://www.de-winton.com/ 

Looks like it should be a good read - especially as Gwynfor's involved in it!

Cheers

Grahami

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Good news, Penrhynman.
Now the hard work starts! :thumbsup:

been having a scoot about on the Penryn website, interesting stuff. Some controversy about the repatriation and subsequent movements of Edward Sholto...

out of curiosity, the original Penryn was built to a slightly under-gauge 2ft gauge ( due to measuring he gauge to the rail centres ) about 1" different to the Ffestiniog 1' 11 1/2" - what gauge is the renewal being laid to ?

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Excellent - having had a brief look at the website, it's got a lot of useful historic info, nice to see!

Story from the Bangor & Anglesey Mail: http://www.theonlinemail.co.uk/bangor-and-anglesey-news/where-i-live/bangor-news/2009/10/14/historic-bethesda-railway-to-be-restored-66580-24917623/ 

I suspect they found the local idiots to ask questions of:

PLANS have been approved to reconstruct part of an historic railway in Bethesda, despite concerns from local residents.

Felin Fawr, at Coed y Parc, part of Penrhyn Quarry, produced slate until 1965 and has a strong historical background, with industrial archaeology of national importance.

The Penrhyn Railway Heritage Trust Ltd bought the site for £10 from Gwynedd Council last year and submitted a planning application to the council’s Arfon area planning committee to reinstall part of a previously-used narrow gauge railway land at Felin Fawr.

The proposal would involve reconstructing 375 metres of the old Penrhyn Quarry Railway line for "demonstration purposes" as part of the Trust’s plans to revitalise and develop the area.

But residents overlooking the site had objected to the plans because of concerns over noise and pollution.

Malcolm Winstanley, who lives at Coed y Parc, said: "In principle, I have no objections to the application as this would preserve a valuable historic feature of Welsh railway slate history.

"As I live adjacent to this development, we would be subjected to a lot of noise and traffic during the development, as well as pollution.

"I would strongly object to the use of coal as used at Snowdon Mountain Railway, which is very toxic."

John L Charles, who also lives at Coed y Parc, said: "I am concerned about the use of the proposed train line to the rear wall of my house so I would be grateful if Gwynedd Council could provide the latest health and safety guidelines regarding the planning and construction of railways, and their proximity to existing dwellings.

"I would like to know the timetable and frequency of traffic up and down the proposed line, as this could cause disruption to my household and may also have a negative impact on the resale value of my property."

Jenny Wong, from Coetir Mynydd, a charitable company which owns and manages the woodlands adjacent to the Felin Fawr site, said: "Our concern is the inevitable smoke from the trains will drift into Parc yr Ocar and will constitute pollution which could have damaging impacts on the biodiversity of the woodlands.

"We would request the Penrhyn Railway Heritage Trust take advice on the possible impact of smoke on local biodiversity and ideally to limit such impacts by the exclusive use of smokeless fuel."

At a meeting of Gwynedd Council’s Arfon planning committee last week, councillors voted to approve the application subject to future talks with Penrhyn Railway Heritage Trust Ltd.

A Gwynedd Council spokesman said: "On October 7, the Arfon planning committee granted planning permission to re-construct part of a previous narrow gauge railway for demonstration purposes at Felin Fawr in Bethesda.

"This decision is subject to council planning officers holding further discussions with the applicant."

Are these people for real?


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Off topic and just out of interest, can anyone cast any light on this embankment on the west side of Bethesda? http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=53.185131&lon=-4.074215&z=16.4&r=0&src=msl 

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I wonder how that area of woodland dealt with the problem of smoke on local biodiversity over the 100 or so years that it had been a coal fired railway in the past?

That embankment is the former LNWR line into Bethesda.

this is, of course, the difference of viewpoints which you are bound to see, on a site like this.

I would be inclined to feel that the chap who is concerned about the resale value of his house, has a fair point. A house is the biggest investment a lot of people ever make in their lives. I'd say he is very much 'for real'

having had a fair amount of experience of the damage coal smoke can cause, if sufficiently concentrated ( where do you think acid rain comes from? ) while I don't believe it would make much difference given the number of trains actually likely to run, it certainly won't benefit the woods. The correct answer to the question 'how did they cope when it was working' is probably 'no-one cared'. Don't forget recent issues at WHR involving sparks and fires caused by engines.

I'd also be curious to know what the Trust is talking about, 'revitalising and redeveloping the area'. They appear to be talking about a few hundred yards of track, run more-or-less as a private members' club. Ok, fine, people can do what they want but it's hardly another Ffestinog, is it?

let's be real here. :blink:

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Its amazing the reactions you get when you announce that you are building a railway. A few freinds and I constructed a 2'0" gauge back garden railway in East Cornwall. As matter of courtesy we consulted anyone we thought might be affected. Very soon the project had been blown out of all proportion and I was assured that we were intending to run the Flying Scotsman up and down the Tamar Valley day and night, property prices wouild plummet as a result, landowners were approaching us offering to sell us land a vastly inflated prices - a far cry from the hundred yards of track we have laid and the three or four chaps who get together on a Sunday morning to play trains and drink tea.

All glories to the Penrhyn - may their endevours prosper.

2'0" gauge "back garden" railway?

That must be a big garden...! :lol:

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Vanoord, the embankment you allude to is the old LNWR branch line to Bethesda.

While not wanting really to get involved in this, I can only say that if people had taken derrickmans point of view in the past- then we would have no new Welsh Highland Railway, Ffestiniog Railway, Lynton & Barnstaple, Talyllyn, East Lancashire, Severn Valley etc. - all began as a small group of people in many cases working only a small length of line.

There is a question, I agree, as to how many "preserved" or perhaps "rejuvenated" railways it is possible to sustain, but hey, nothing is impossible, let's give them a chance. I do seem to recall a suggestion that a line could be created along the footpath/cycleway to Bangor similar to the WHR length from Caernarfon to Dinas.

Grahami

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It is good to see people taking an interest in something like this and making it work.
I find there is more character in a small railway project that is not too long. Most visitors and rail enthusiasts go and see the narrow gauge railways to see, hear and smell the steam engine rather than go on a long ride.
My view is that the Ffestiniog railway from Blaenau Ffestiniog to Caernarfon is perhaps too long a journey now. It could be maybe about 2 hrs plus of a journey. And can be expensive to visitors and a hell of a long time to sit on a plank.

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The current timetabled journey time for a round trip from Caernarfon to Hafod-y-Llyn and back is 4 hours, and that only includes a minimum time running round at Hafod-y-Llyn.

The WHR, of course, is currently a Caernarfon-Beddgelert railway + a trip through the Aberglaslyn.

The intention was, I believe, to operate this summer from Porthmadog to Beddgelert alongside the Caernarfon-Beddgelert service, ie not to offer a 'through' service.

Having gone from Caernarfon to Beddgelert and back, I'd agree that the market probably isn't very big for the whole journey in one go, but that doesn't exclude running it as two railways that meet in the middle.

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The current timetabled journey time for a round trip from Caernarfon to Hafod-y-Llyn and back is 4 hours, and that only includes a minimum time running round at Hafod-y-Llyn.

Without a toilet break? 😮

... while I don't believe it would make much difference given the number of trains actually likely to run, it certainly won't benefit the woods. ...

Having lived reasonably near the Bluebell Railway all my life, and bearing in mind that the number of steam trains that run on the line today possibly make it the busiest steam railway in Britain (happy to be corrected), I think you will find that any 'damage' to the surrounding countryside and woodlands (some of the best in Sussex) is so insignificant as to be not worth 30 seconds consideration.

Referring to the worries of those mentioned:

Maybe we have a small case of banana-ism here? You've heard of Nimbys, have you also heard of "Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anyone" ?

this is, of course, the difference of viewpoints which you are bound to see, on a site like this.

I would be inclined to feel that the chap who is concerned about the resale value of his house, has a fair point. A house is the biggest investment a lot of people ever make in their lives. I'd say he is very much 'for real'

having had a fair amount of experience of the damage coal smoke can cause, if sufficiently concentrated ( where do you think acid rain comes from? ) while I don't believe it would make much difference given the number of trains actually likely to run, it certainly won't benefit the woods. The correct answer to the question 'how did they cope when it was working' is probably 'no-one cared'. Don't forget recent issues at WHR involving sparks and fires caused by engines.

I'd also be curious to know what the Trust is talking about, 'revitalising and redeveloping the area'. They appear to be talking about a few hundred yards of track, run more-or-less as a private members' club. Ok, fine, people can do what they want but it's hardly another Ffestinog, is it?

let's be real here. :blink:

Righty, I think you're wrong! 😉

I fail to see how having little steam trains (garden gauge, apparently!) going past the bottom of your garden would negatively affect house prices - I'd think quite the opposite, although the difference would, I suspect, be minimal.

Smoke: I fail to see that there would be a measurable impact. Plenty of houses in these parts are still heated by real fires and I don't notice the squirrel fetishists complaining about that.

As far as sparks are concerned, point taken, but sense and spark arresters should sort that out.

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I don't actually think it would make any difference at all to property prices, and I don't believe it would make any difference to the woods either.

The point I was trying to make is that a site like this will automatically assume that everyone is in favour of a scheme like this, and that isn't necessarily so.

interesting point about the journey time on the Ffestiniog. I haven't been on the Lein Fach for a good few years, but now you put it that way, yes, it's a long way.

it's quite true that the Ffestiniog, Tal-y-Llyn et al started with a lot less than they have now, but it's also true that they did start with several miles of track and ran services from the very outset. It's also the case that they have been able to attract major income and people who were interested to build and operate a major line.

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The current timetabled journey time for a round trip from Caernarfon to Hafod-y-Llyn and back is 4 hours, and that only includes a minimum time running round at Hafod-y-Llyn.

Without a toilet break? 😮

We have loos on the WHR trains now ;D
Just as well, as we also have copious quantities of local Purple Moose http://www.purplemoose.co.uk/  beer for sale on the trains 😉

I quite fancy the idea of having a narrow-gauge steam railway in the garden.... an aunt of mine knew the Rev Teddy Boston and once took me to see his 'garden railway', which I thought was quite amazing, being about 5 at the time

we actually have the Nene Valley Railway a few hundred yards from our back garden and I quite like it. You can hear the engines, smell the steam and hot oil when the wind is in the right direction, walk down and watch the trains.

However it's also true that the smoke and smuts from the engines running round their trains and pulling away, have caused a fair amount of controversy in the new flats on the site of the old Marshalls' car dealership.

I'd tend to feel that steam engines are quite fun at arm's length, but actually having them right next door is a different matter.

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