Digit
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16 years ago
This structure has me somewhat confused, I hope someone can make a sensible suggestion. Its located at the quarry end of the working area associated with the V4 drumhouse, the fence can be seen on the right of the picture. Its very solidly constructed but its very small. The interior is about the size of a large dog kennel (a Newfoundland for example) but its too small for a person yet it contains on the back wall a small recess similar but smaller than those found in the side walls of the gwaliau. Also it appears to have been repaired/conserved at some time. I cannot believe most of the material from the lintel up is original, its all out of square and totally unlike normal Vivian/Dinorwic construction. Its a shame I didn't have a measuring stick with me but the hight of the lintel is about 3 foot 6 inches in old money.

Any suggestions?


Photograph:

🔗Vivian-Slate-Mine-User-Album-Image-38926[linkphoto]Vivian-Slate-Mine-User-Album-Image-38926[/linkphoto][/link]
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simonrl
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16 years ago
I'd always assumed this was some sort of blast shelter, although as you say it's pretty cramped in there.
my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by
JohnnearCfon
16 years ago
Is the ceiling inside about the same height as the lintel? Or is it higher inside? If the former, I would agree with Simon, some kind of blast shelter.
simonrl
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16 years ago
"JohnnearCfon" wrote:

Is the ceiling inside about the same height as the lintel? Or is it higher inside? If the former, I would agree with Simon, some kind of blast shelter.



From memory it is, so it's very low in there
my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by
JohnnearCfon
16 years ago
Could it be a blast shelter for a Ruston (cabless of course)? Not sure if they used them in that area of the quarry though.
Digit
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16 years ago
Ceiling tapers down from the hight of the lintel towards the rear.

I considered blast shelter but rejected it for the following reasons:-

1. The other blast shelters are round, have a seat, do not have a recess, and can be stood up in.

2. There is no ironwork reinforcing in the roof.

3. A few yards to the left of the picture there is a structure with an iron rail reinforced roof.
~~~ The future is not what it used to be ~~~
JohnnearCfon
16 years ago
The loco shelters elsewhere (admittedly for steam locos) were rectangular. I am sure I have seen a smaller one for the Rustons but can't remember where in the quarry.
Digit
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16 years ago
Too close to the front edge of the workarea for tracks to exit and turn to either left or right. I had to go slightly over the edge to take the photo. So I doubt any rails could have been there or locos of any type.
~~~ The future is not what it used to be ~~~
Digit
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16 years ago
Did they perhaps have some smaller compressors than the Ingersol Rand that is in the quarry yard. A smaller compressor with wheels might have fitted in.
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JohnnearCfon
16 years ago
Looking at it closely on the enlarged view there are some strange things about that roof costruction!

If you look at it closely there seem to be 3 different constructions.

Firstly one that goes up both sides to just above the lintel. Then a different construction in fresher looking slate as you say, at a strange angle, almost as if it was built to lay flat on top of an existing sloped roof profile. Then a third consruction (that appears to use the same older looking slate as the walls) that is laid more or less horizontally.
JohnnearCfon
16 years ago
Going off topic for a moment, what is that vehicle in your Avatar Digit?
Digit
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16 years ago
I rather believe most of the current roof is the work of a drunken restorer than original quarry work. Having said that its been there long enough for a good growth of vegitation on the top.
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Digit
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16 years ago
Quote:

Going off topic for a moment, what is that vehicle in your Avatar Digit?



Its a portable steam boiler that someone failed to keep the water level high enough. Almost certainly agricultural in origin, tow it to site with horse or traction engine and connect to power tool. Predates batteries and internal combustion engines as portable power.

Think of it as a none-self-propelled traction engine with a flat belt power take-off. If you had a farm big enough to justify owning lots of machinery why spend money on more than one full specification traction engine, you can use that one to move these cheaper power sources around.

This one blew up and provides a powerful message about the hazards of boilers.
~~~ The future is not what it used to be ~~~
Roy Morton
16 years ago
Ref your avatar. Could we see a larger picture of it, it looks great and where is it situated?
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Digit
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16 years ago
Being mindfull of being off topic.

The original:-
[photo]Personal-Album-3945-Image-39019[/photo]

A better view:-
[photo]Personal-Album-3945-Image-39020[/photo]

An undamaged one slightly different style but same function:-
[photo]Personal-Album-3945-Image-39021[/photo]

Both at the Beamish Museum


~~~ The future is not what it used to be ~~~
Roy Morton
16 years ago
Thanks for the pics (above)
I bet that fair rattled the teeth and cleared the sinuses when that went off! Ouch! 😮
"You Chinese think of everything!"
"But I''m not Chinese!"
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grahami
16 years ago
Could the building be the remains of a "backstop" for a blondin cable ? (I.e. the suspension cable, not the travelling one ?)

Cheers

Grahami
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Digit
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16 years ago
Quote:

Could the building be the remains of a "backstop" for a blondin cable ? (I.e. the suspension cable, not the travelling one



Its opening faces Llanberis which I think would imply a cable that is parallel to both the quarry and the Vivian incline so while its an interesting thought I would have thought not.

Its a shame that I had no measuring stick with me, I will correct that omission on my next visit. Getting a proper set of measurements should limit the possibilities. I'm somewhat intrigued by the small recess at the back, you don't build something like that without the intention to put something in it. Given the low roof hight, access to it requires crawling or similar even with the "building" as empty as now.
~~~ The future is not what it used to be ~~~
grahami
16 years ago
Need not be parallel to the cable - could be to one side, with a corresponding one to the other side - like a "Y" I'll have to look at my Penyrorsedd stuff to see if I can find an example.

Grahami
The map is the territory - especially in chain scale.
Digit
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16 years ago
I've returned to this puzzling structure and spent most of an afternoon measuring it and generally studying it.

Firstly I must withdraw my previous sarcastic comment about the roof being the work of drunken restorers. It might look like that but it isn't, it's an old roof, not only is there a wider variety of plants growing up there than anywhere nearby but there is a full grown tree rooted in the roof!! You can age a hedge by counting the number of different species growing in it, I sure the same is true of a roof. The tree appears to have been growing for about as long as many of the trees on that level so I guess they all took root about the same time after abandonment of the level. (The OS maps of about 1900 do show the odd tree here and there but I am comparing with the trees that could not have been there when the level was working.)

The internal dimensions are 5ft wide, 4ft 4in high, 12 ft deep, a bit higher than I previously estimated but still very low, it might have been intended to be 4ft 6in high as the path across the front has intruded just a bit. It's slightly lower at the back but that is probably because the rear wall has bulged out a bit and is now a weak point in the structure and may blow in the next couple of years. All exterior walls are 3ft thick (the nearby gwalia are 2ft 6in) and the roof is 3ft 6in thick at the quarry side tapering to 3ft at the drumhouse side. The recess in the rear wall is 2ft wide, 1ft 9in high, and 1ft 9in deep.

I had a good look at the floor (after moving the droppings of various species) it seems to be an earth floor with randomly scattered pieces of slate. I found no evidence of rails or fixings of any kind. It is possible that I wasn't seeing the original floor, years of leaf mold plus a little intruded earth (plus droppings) and the random scattering of bits of slate (like every where nearby) could be hiding something but I wasn't excavating, just using my eyes! The floor is about 1ft 6in - 2ft below the level of the rails that ran from the quarry behind this structure past the gwalia to the drumhouse, and the entrance to the structure is very close to the edge of the work-area so I stick to my previous comment about the improbability of it being a shelter for a loco of any kind.

The construction is interesting, it's subtly different to all the other structures nearby. There are no large blocks of slate, in fact much of the slate appears to be very poor quality, many pieces have several veins of pyrites in them. I'd even suggest that many of the pieces might better be classed as overburden rather than proper slate. Its difficult to describe the difference but I got the strong impression the the slates came from the preparation of the level rather than the working of the level. I could not find any toolmarks on any of the slates this is different to nearby structures. JohnnearCfon commented that there appeared to be three phases of construction and indeed the photo does give that impression. However looking at the actual structure I do not think this is the case, I think its the side-effect of a repair. The wooden lintel above the doorway cannot be original, its relatively modern timber which woodworm has not touched, all the remainder of the roof is supported on tree branches in which the woodworm have had very many feasts. I think the insertion of the replacement lintel has produced an optical delusion.

Its clear from the bulge in the rear wall that earth has been used as a packing material in the depth of the wall as in many dry stone walls, a feature I have not noticed elsewhere in the quarry. Also I'm fairly sure that this structure is built on solid ground and not the built-up ground which makes up most of the work-area. My strong impression is that this structure was built in the earliest days of this level possibly/probably before the retaining wall and the built-up ground under the gwalia and the drumhouse.

There is a similarly located structure on the V3 level, however its much bigger, internal 5ft wide(same), 5ft 6in high(bigger), 18ft deep(much bigger), walls are 3ft thick(same), roof is 2ft 6in thick(thinner) and flat. Another obvious difference this building had internal plaster the one above had not. Also its built of better quality, better shaped slate and on the same level as the rest of the work-area. In the past I'd always tended to assumed (without evidence) that this was a loco overnight shelter.
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