spitfire
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16 years ago
Rumour has it (perhaps Geoff could confirm?) that the children of Cape Cornwall School St Just are to be denied a day off for the Feast day in November.
Feast days in Cornwall closely linked to mining are nearly a thing of the past with only a few now being celebrated, namely Stithians, St day, St Just and Paul. Camborne's feast used to be marked with the closure of the Schol of Mines for the day, but I doubt if that happens now as the school has moved to Penryn. Is this a case of PC or another attempt to turn us into
Duracells?
spitfire
Knocker
16 years ago
That was a story earlier this week, although I understand the school have seen the light and done a U Turn on this one.

It appears to be an example of someone coming down from upcountry (The headtecher has come down from London) failing to understand Cornish traditions.

One of the great things about Cornwall is the sense of community which is reinforced by all the different festival days we have, such as Obby Oss, Flora Day, Feast Days and so on. Without this places will start to lose there sense of community and eventually we will start suffering the same problems as elsewhere in the country.
spitfire
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16 years ago
Thanks for that Knocker, sense at last 'till next time that is
spitfire
sougher
16 years ago
Sadly a Derbyshire tradition that has disappeared was the annual lead miners holiday on the 13th May each year. It was celebrated all over the mining district called the King's Field (roughly the limestone area of the Peak that stretched from Castleton in the north, west to Hartington, south to Wirksworth, and east to Matlock and Calver, with the two inliers of Ashover and Crich to the east of the field). It was in existance by the mid-eighteenth century, but the date for it's founding is not known. Dr. Jim Rieuwerts in his book "Glossary of Mining Terms" (1998) refers to it and gives examples. Apparently the coes (small stone buildings with thatched roofs where tools, work clothes, lead ore were kept) were decorated with garlands and a dinner provided. Often mine owners were invited to dine with the miners and a good time was enjoyed by all, especially singing and ale consumption. Over the years the custom gradually died out, but in the Barmaster's Records at Chatsworth House there is a printed notice advertising the celebration of the traditional lead miners' holiday on 13th May, 1925 at Low Mine, Bonsall, which describes the entertainments. Older residents of the village when the Bonsall Book was being compiled in the early 2000's remembered on the day of the holiday joining in races on the mine's surface and trying to climb a greasy pole to recover a ham from the top.

Other traditions still remain, thank goodness. The annual Well Dressings which are unique to Derbyshire being the most well known. However, one other perculiar tradition remains, that of the Castleton Garland Ceremony which takes place on the 29th May annually. A Garland King and Queen both on horseback dressed in 17th century clothes ride slowly round the village stopping at each public house, where they partake of a drink. The Garland King wears a wicker beehive decorated with flowers and greenery which obscures him from the waist upwards. They are accompanied by the village school children dressed in white, who at each stop perform a dance, the boys make a circle holding wooden staves and the girls dance within the circle. Very strangely the music sounds like a Cornish floral dance. This isn't suprising as many Cornish miners migrated to the Derbyshire lead mining field and many settled and worked in the mines in and around Castleton. The day this ceremony takes place on is called Oak Apple Day, this was the date that Parliament commemorated the Restoration of King Charles 11 to the throne in 1660, and also his birthday. However, this ceremony predates the English Civil War and it's origins are very obscure. Along with friends I took my small daughter to see this ceremony many years ago, if you live in Derbyshire and have never seen it, it is well worth a visit to see it performed.

Another tradition that was observed in Castleton, until the outbreak of WW2, was the ringing of the church bells on the Castleton Barmaster's birthday (a Barmaster is the official who measures the ore, measures the meers, nicks the mines etc. etc. and with the Steward of the Barmote Court presides at the court). It ceased then because church bells, with one exception, were never rung during the war, they were to be rung only as a sign of enemy invasion.
carnkie
16 years ago
There was an excellent discussion on Well Dressing in another forum some years age. Very interesting. A good web site

http://www.welldressing.com/ 

And the GE link works well.
The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.
AR
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16 years ago
The miners holiday is something that appears to have died out with smaller-scale lead mining in the Peak - maybe PDMHS need to resurrect it! In former times, the mine owners used to pay for ale for the miners, I've seen mention in 19th century reckoning books explicitly stating that ale was bought for this purpose.

I'd not heard of the Castleton ringing before, but I'm sure Eddie Tennant (present Barmaster) wouldn't object to that one being restarted too.... :lol:
Follow the horses, Johnny my laddie, follow the horses canny lad-oh!
Dolcoathguy
16 years ago
As times move on, I have seen Feast days go in many towns.

However we have had many other events that have been laid on for the local community to join in on in the last few decades(Summer fun days, Trevithick day, South Crofty open day etc). I guess Trevithick day, Murdoch day,Maisy day etc have replaced the feast days in the Cornish towns?

I believe that there should be one day which celebrates the heritage of every Cornish town and village whether a feast day or something else and appreciate the efforts of those who organise these days.

Is it safe to come out of the bunker yet?
spitfire
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16 years ago
That is a very good point you have raised, and one I didn't think of.
However where a feast day still exists I feel that all help should be given to ensure it survives. If the children are not involved that tradition will die within a generation.
Some years ago I and others approached the N.T. about letting some licenced person set off the merriment stone at Wheal Owles or any other that may be on their property.
All to no avail, health & safety etc, the stone may split due to the heat and so on.
What a sight that would be on mid-summers night it would also make history live again
spitfire
Roy Morton
16 years ago
Dont forget the Tweveheads Tea Treat. I think this is still celebrated, however I think this is linked more with Methodism than Mining, although in many places the two were inextricably linked.
Long live the traditions, without them we lose our local identity. It's happening with whole countries at the moment. Cultural identity needs to be preserved not only for the locals, but for the world as a whole, and preferably in the country of origin. If I go to Morocco I want to see Morocco not Milton Keynes. 😮
"You Chinese think of everything!"
"But I''m not Chinese!"
"Then you must have forgotten something!"
Redwinch
16 years ago
"Roy Morton" wrote:

It's happening with whole countries at the moment. Cultural identity needs to be preserved not only for the locals, but for the world as a whole, and preferably in the country of origin. If I go to Morocco I want to see Morocco not Milton Keynes. 😮



World domination by Church of McDonalds, Tesco, etc!!!!!

:devil:
Still supporting Rampgill. last time I looked
RJV
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16 years ago
Or that great Cornish Satan, Ginsters!
It'll be the only choice when I wander out at lunchtime. £3 for a sandwich with all the fresh taste of death. :curse:
carnkie
16 years ago
"Roy Morton" wrote:

Long live the traditions, without them we lose our local identity. It's happening with whole countries at the moment. Cultural identity needs to be preserved not only for the locals, but for the world as a whole, and preferably in the country of origin. If I go to Morocco I want to see Morocco not Milton Keynes. 😮



To an extent I agree but with the tremendous increase in population movements these days can cultural identity be maintained? I see quick sands approaching so time to pop to Tescos.
The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.
stuey
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16 years ago
Was David Kneebone something to do with Wheal Concord? He was until recently the headmaster at CC School.

Awesome place.

Ofsted said something like:- "The kids really can't be arsed to do anything apart from poke around the scenery and surf, anything north of Penzance is a mystery to them and 4/5 students couldn't name the Prime Minister".

Tying the themes of Pasties, culture and bloody schools together, Jamie Oliver has got pasties banned in Cornwall due to his healthy eating programme. Jeez, I need a decent pasty for lunch, not some bloody rabbit food. How about giving the fat kids smaller portions!!! Oliver is not renowned for his mental ability.... fat tongued bloody londoner!

The more we have diversity training and Euro inclusivity rammed down our necks, the more people say "ferk orf to that" Witness the increase of Ingerland, Scotland and Piran flags. Despite the increased drive for mediocrity and mobile populace, identity is more important than ever.

I wouldn't fight for the UK, but I'd fight for Kernow!
geoff
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16 years ago
"stuey" wrote:

Was David Kneebone something to do with Wheal Concord? He was until recently the headmaster at CC School.



Both Kneebones, but 2 different people....possibly distant cousins.
spitfire
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16 years ago
"Roy Morton" wrote:

Dont forget the Tweveheads Tea Treat. I think this is still celebrated, however I think this is linked more with Methodism than Mining, although in many places the two were inextricably linked.
Long live the traditions, without them we lose our local identity. It's happening with whole countries at the moment. Cultural identity needs to be preserved not only for the locals, but for the world as a whole, and preferably in the country of origin. If I go to Morocco I want to see Morocco not Milton Keynes. 😮


Glad you brought that up Roy. Remember Billy Bray The Kings Son?
spitfire
stuey
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16 years ago
Kneebone was one of the better headmasters I've met on my travels, which is why I suspected him of being from the real world. ;)

Roy Morton
16 years ago
The 'other' Dave Kneebone is a geologist and was at one time manager at Geevor. I worked with Dave on a number of site investigations and I can vouch for him not being an Head master. Dave would curl up laughing at the thought I'm sure! :lol:
"You Chinese think of everything!"
"But I''m not Chinese!"
"Then you must have forgotten something!"
Roy Morton
16 years ago
"carnkie" wrote:

"Roy Morton" wrote:

Long live the traditions, without them we lose our local identity. It's happening with whole countries at the moment. Cultural identity needs to be preserved not only for the locals, but for the world as a whole, and preferably in the country of origin. If I go to Morocco I want to see Morocco not Milton Keynes. 😮



To an extent I agree but with the tremendous increase in population movements these days can cultural identity be maintained? I see quick sands approaching so time to pop to Tescos.



Preservation of cultural identity is down to us all.
Hopefully it will stave off the 'Brave New World', long enough for the generations behind us to realise what we are banging on about.
Some one once announced to me, with some glee, that Mc. D****d's was coming to Pool.
They seemed almost shocked when I replied 'Oops....There goes the neighbourhood!'

Once we were many, now we are few.

I'm off to find a rope and a barn..............:lol: :lol:
"You Chinese think of everything!"
"But I''m not Chinese!"
"Then you must have forgotten something!"
carnkie
16 years ago
I completely agree with you. As a matter of interest what did you think of the Mining Village Festival and the smoking chimneys evening? I thought the latter seem to attract a fair bit of interest, particularly with the kids.
Talking of tradition, I recently did a bit of work for the VCH of Cornwall. It involved Holy Wells that were of course part of the tradition hundreds of years ago. Many have been destroyed but there are a surprising number left. I think every effort should be made to ensure they survive. The one at Euny is in danger of disappearing. There are some great photos in a book by Paul Broadhurst. A quick one from Kenwyn.

🔗Personal-Album-272-Image-144[linkphoto]Personal-Album-272-Image-144[/linkphoto][/link]

The serious question is. How long to we keep up tradition in the light of a very changing world?

The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.
GolowDydh
16 years ago
Traditions in many places in Cornwall have been kept going and even a few new ones invented, however, in most cases the driving force is not a deep respect for tradition but extra revenue for local businesses from visitors. Even so in some smaller settlements there are not enough able bodied permanent residents to organise the event, prepare the risk assesment, fund the insurance etc.
The past actually happened but history is only what someone wrote down
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