Someone on here will know this..

I started on the very first year of the DipCSM, 1973 although I started in 1974 for family reasons

AFAIK, the DipCSM was not included in the Accreditation when the ACSM was replaced by the BSc (although the ACSM continued as an award by CSM to BSc graduates)

I believe the DipCSM was discontinued as a stand-alone course by about 1990, although it survives as a discretionary award by the University Senate

Is that correct?

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I understand that ACSM = Associate of CSM and MCSM is Master CSM. Associate being designated by a Bachelor's degree.

I gather the degree mostly associated with ACSM was that of Industrial Minerals. I assume the Dip was a Dip in Industrial Minerals, which must have been like an A' Level.

It seems the present "Penryn Hill" incarnation of the CSM is rather like Ford making Aston Martins. Let's face it, it's really a ford.

The original ACSM was an independent qualification, assessed and awarded by CSM.

The original Diploma was a two-year course containing most of the academic content of the ACSM plus the Surveying Course. It was aligned with various training schemes, particularly SACM Mine Manager and its Zambsn equivalent.

When CSM accredited the ACSM as a degree in about 1975, DipCSM was nominally defined as HND but I don't believe it was ever formally accredited - certainly my certificate, dated 1977 makes no mention of it

DipCSM students sometimes transferred from Dip1 to BSc2 if their exam results warranted it.

Degree and DipCSM graduates both entered SACM Mine Manager training at the same level

I'd certainly agree that the present CSM students are a younger crew thsn in my day, but they are still much in demand in the industry, and in the oil industry as well

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Someone on here will know this..

I started on the very first year of the DipCSM, 1973 although I started in 1974 for family reasons

AFAIK, the DipCSM was not included in the Accreditation when the ACSM was replaced by the BSc (although the ACSM continued as an award by CSM to BSc graduates)

I believe the DipCSM was discontinued as a stand-alone course by about 1990, although it survives as a discretionary award by the University Senate

Is that correct?

Interesting, I gather that most of the DipCSM people use ACSM as well even if it is not 'defacto'.
You are correct the diploma has not been offered for some time, this is roughly equal to a modern HND (2 taught years), and as I understand it at CSM was (in Mining Engineerings case) basically the first two years of the undergraduate degree minus the final year project.
When the diploma was phased out a 'foundation year' preparing students (those without A-Levels/from technical backgrounds) for the 3 year engineering degree was offered, even this is no longer available. 3 undergrad courses are now offered, Mining Engineering (BEng), Engineering/Mining Geology and Renewable Energy. There are numerous postgrad courses however, seem to run different ones every year.

I am not sure if Stueys comment about Industrial Minerals is correct, I would say ACSM is firmly associated with Mining Engineering these days anyway!
By the way, PENRYN hill?! dont swear like that Stuey!

I wasn't aware that DipCSM graduates used the ACSM title! I've certainly never done this.

The description of the original DipCSM as being the academic content of the original degree less the final year project, is pretty much correct from my recollection.

I do know that a considerable number of early DipCSM graduates completed Masters during the early 90s recession, entering straight onto the course after varying periods in industry.

Some passed various professional exams without further formal training. I became Chartered Engineer as a Mature Applicant, but a number of my contemporaries passed professional exams in Australia and Canada before that.

It's also true that a high proportion of the early DipCSM entrants were applicants who would have been accepted for ACSM under the old discretionary system but did not have the right A Levels for the accredited BSc

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I taught HND courses until late 1990s, and so DipCSMwas still being awarded. I cannot remember anyone beinG given ACSM unless they had completed the degree course, hence the DipCSM qualification. The MCSM was given for all those who completed a masters just so they had some letters comparable with the ACSM as they had completed a degree course. THe MCSM was also awarded to those who had completed a research degree too, so I have the following BEng PhD ACSM MCSM. However I usually forget about the MCSM as it is nowhere near as important as the old ACSM.

I also remember many people leaving with DipCSM and ACSM having completed the HND course then transferring to the second year of the degree, which effectively gave after four years of study two qualifications.

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I think that the DipCSM-as-HND issue dates from the various consolidations of awarding bodies (CNAA and BTEC) in the mid 80s and early 90s

Students transferred from DipCSM first year to BSc first or second year at the School's discretion in the 1970s, or joined BSc second year after completing DipCSM, although this wasn't usual at that time. I know a number of early DipCSM graduates who took MSc in tbe 90s with no other qualifications.

I believe the Diploma "proper" was last offered in the early 1980s

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I understand that ACSM = Associate of CSM and MCSM is Master CSM. Associate being designated by a Bachelor's degree.

I gather the degree mostly associated with ACSM was that of Industrial Minerals. I assume the Dip was a Dip in Industrial Minerals, which must have been like an A' Level.

It seems the present "Penryn Hill" incarnation of the CSM is rather like Ford making Aston Martins. Let's face it, it's really a ford.

That post is almost entirely bollox.

MCSM is a fairly recent award for Masters Degree graduates who felt an attachment to CSM and wanted the kudos that went with the long-established ACSM. MCSM will be in addition to their MPhil, MSc or MEng

The ACSM was never "Industrial Minerals", it was mining engineering for about 100 years. A separate minerals processing degree was added from about 1980.

The 2-year DipCSM course was officially called "Diploma in Mineral Industries", it was at HND level and was in due course accredited as a BTec Higher Diploma.

DipCSM graduates are not ACSM, unless they have moved on to and completed the ACSM. Students could transfer from 1st year Diploma to 1st year Degree, or 2nd (final) year Diploma to 2nd year Degree - what "Derrickhand" says on this is a year adrift.

The ACSM was externally accredited as a BSc by the CNAA (Council for National Academic Awards). This body accredited degrees from Polytechnics - Universities never had external accreditation of courses - and still don't as far as I know.

CSM at Penryn is now the only university in the UK that offers mining degrees, and turns out graduates, who all seem to get decent jobs. So ignore "Tony Blair's" defamatory remarks!!

Royal School of Mines, somewhere up-country, still award ARSM by the bucket load, although they haven't run a mining degree for many years.

That all sounds about right.

The early DipCSM undergraduates were a pretty mixed bag, and to a considerable extent it functioned as a foundation year, or as an intake mechanism for older candidates who didn't have the right A levels for CNAA, or just wanted some academic study to help them pass professional qualifications like SACM which they were already studying for.

The School could exercise considerable discretion at the time.

I doubt that it would have survived had BTEC not been established, but faded away instead. Accreditation as HND probably created a viable format for a qualification which hadn't really created a niche for itself at that time, bearing in mind that students were then largely state-supported and the practice of working overseas during the long summer vac favoured degree students in their subsequent job hunting.

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You also have to view these qualifications in their value at the time.
I didn't go to Camborne but was busy getting my HND in Mining via the coal industry route.
The industry wanted HND level for it's management. That was enough to gain a Manager's ticket academically, so why pay more?
It must be said that the old HND was a much more rigorous thing then than now (in my opinion).
Until my final HND year, the Institution of Mining Engineers allowed the HND as a qualification for registration as a Chartered Engineer.
Now this requires a Masters degree.

Spot on.

When I qualified in 1977, probably a majority of DipCSM graduates went in to do Mine Manager certs with SACM, or various other Commonwealth or African countries; that, or went into the newly-developing offshore oil industry.

IMinE weren't the only Institute accepting pre-BTEC HND candidates for Chartered status, not by any means.

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I understand that ACSM = Associate of CSM and MCSM is Master CSM. Associate being designated by a Bachelor's degree.

I gather the degree mostly associated with ACSM was that of Industrial Minerals. I assume the Dip was a Dip in Industrial Minerals, which must have been like an A' Level.

It seems the present "Penryn Hill" incarnation of the CSM is rather like Ford making Aston Martins. Let's face it, it's really a ford.

What do you expect from someone who it would appear never have the good fortune to have graduated from CSM with either a DipCSM or ACSM.

From my good contacts at CSM in its current home, it would appear that the quality of students has not really changed much. All applicants have very good 'A' level results, in my day as long as you could walk, talk and breathe at the same time you were in LOL.

So CSM is no longer in the old building in Pool, and statement is that somehow less for it, just because its part of a bigger institution is just plain wrong. I many respects I think that the students are better off for it. There are certainly much better facilities at Penryn in a general sense than there were either at Camborne or Pool.

I remember Roy M introducing myself to an elderly gent who Roy said had gone to the CSM (which he had) and introduced me as someone who also went to CSM (which I had) and the reply was no I hadn't, meaning I went to the building in Pool, rather than the original home in Camborne.

I know that Stuey in whatever incarnation will be laughing as he statement was designed to wind us all up, but just remember there are quite a few on this site who attended CSM on whatever site and we are family (of a sort).:guns:

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Well, I've never been to Penryn, or seen the new buildings there; I started at Fore Street and qualified at Trevenson.

But I HAVE seen the recent and current crop of graduates and they seem to be in demand, so the School must be doing something right.

Incidentally, a now-retired correspondent (not on this board) reminds me that the lack of CNAA accreditation of the ACSM as a BSc was a central issue in the aborted merger between CSM and Plymouth in the late 1960s. This was a fairly recent controversy in my time, of course.

Trevenson was quite a radical step, at the time; its new Min Pro Lab was designed to allow the Min Pro BSc (KEM Mill was recognised as being of primarily historic importance, even then). It also allowed increased faculty numbers and the discontinuation of teaching of certain subjects - maths, for one - at the Cornwall Tech campus, by CTC staff. It provided computer facilities (by then-current standards) and allowed the survey function to move on from the Victorian environment of KEM

The determined rearguard action against the updating of CSM was very much alive in my day. With the benefit of hindsight, I believe they were sincere but wrong, and the School as they foresaw it would no longer be with us.

The best conclusion I can draw, is that the Trevenson period was a necessary transition from the essentially pre-War structure and attitudes which were clearly recognisable when I arrived in 1973, and the modernised CSM of the mid-to-late 1990s

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Basically if you complete a degree in mining engineering at CSM you get "two degrees", the ACSM and the BENG, if you go to work in the mining industry, they will take more notice of the ACSM, if you go to work outside of the mining industry, they will look at the ACSM with a blank look and refer to the BENG (I work outside of the mining industry myself).

The argument about whether it should be in Penryn or not is pointless, its there now so get over it. As a Cornishman (And from Camborne) I detest the idea of it not being in (or near) Camborne as the schools home is Camborne, from the memorial ground at penponds, to the war memorial plaque in the church, Camborme is and always will be its home (Its good to see that the school is always represented in Camorne on remembrance Sunday). But times change and it gets to the point it has to be accepted.

If CSM had not moved to Trevenson, it would not have survived and I'm sure in future the same will be said about the move to penryn - it was struggling to stand on its own two feet at the end of the day. its good to see the rebellious nature still lives on with the CSM club firmly esconced into Penryn rugby club as opposed to being sucked into the union bar!

I love it when I get phone calls from Exeter Universities Alumni association, asking if I enjoyed my time in Exeter, when I say I never went to Exeter, the normal reply is oh, you went to Penryn did you? to which the answer is NO - I went to Camborne, always throws them!

I gather the merger with Exeter isn't particularly harmonious in either direction, which is probsbly as it should be.

Early contacts with NUS in the 70s were sometimes quite abrasive, with CSM SU taking tne view that safeguarding students and graduates' professional progress took precedence over the views of a bunch of lefties in London, and the opposite view being held in return.

NUS then-Vice-President Sue Slipman was a notable player in the festivities, from what I recall.

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I always wondered how a bunch of politically incorrect, inherently sexist mining types would get on with the feminist Falmouth arts lot!

Sorry Keith. My internet tourettes kicked off again. :lol:

Until my final HND year, the Institution of Mining Engineers allowed the HND as a qualification for registration as a Chartered Engineer.
Now this requires a Masters degree.

I'm sure you needed to do exams on top of the HND - CEI Part 2 was it? A lot of colleges ran courses to prepare for this exam.

I always wondered how a bunch of politically incorrect, inherently sexist mining types would get on with the feminist Falmouth arts lot!

Alcohol must help.

No, that would probably make matters worst! Probably with allegations of sexual assault and allsorts else! The smokers night initiation at Camborne was not for the faint hearted and well the (few) female students took it and partook in it willingly - some of them far outdoing the lads, I remember one girl in particular taking great pleasure in smothering butter over dozens of naked lads!!! Your average Falmouth college of arts student would have an apolectic!