royfellows
10 years ago
Going through my albums and uploading archive pictures I found a couple of reasonable ones underground at Wheal Sterran. Comparing with modern pictures on this website the truck has been turned upside down and its wheels stolen.

This is making me good and mad.

This is a picture I took about 1994

🔗Wheal-Sterran-Tin-Mine-Archive-Album-Image-98813[linkphoto]Wheal-Sterran-Tin-Mine-Archive-Album-Image-98813[/linkphoto][/link]

Here is a recent one by our old friend Shaza

🔗Wheal-Sterran-Tin-Mine-User-Album-Image-004[linkphoto]Wheal-Sterran-Tin-Mine-User-Album-Image-004[/linkphoto][/link]

If anything is stolen from Cwmystwyth and I discover the culprits I will through the full weight of the law at them, and thats a promise.

It seems to be an ongoing thing.
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jaseredjacket1987
10 years ago
it must of taken a hulk of a man or 10 to turn on of those over!! why would you go through the hassle of taking the time to take off the wheels? are they used on something else or just weighed in? spoils it for everyone!:curse:
mistericeman
10 years ago
It's sometimes surprising where stuff turns up .....

(Not artifacts concerned with the original posting )

These are in a farmers yard down the lane from some Gold mines in the Dolgellau area ...

No doubt just shifted from the abandoned workings long ago when no one cared ...

SO I'm casting no aspersions just indicating the loss of context involved in moving stuff like this .

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage
SRJ underwater mining
10 years ago
this sort of thing is precisely why everything we uncover on our digs is recorded, brought to surface and preserved so that stuff can't go missing
ChrisJC
10 years ago
"SRJ underwater mining" wrote:

this sort of thing is precisely why everything we uncover on our digs is recorded, brought to surface and preserved so that stuff can't go missing



Without wishing to start a bunfight - bringing it to the surface and preserving it just means that it can no longer be enjoyed in its original context, the same as vandalising it in situ.

Chris.
rufenig
10 years ago
"SRJ underwater mining" wrote:

this sort of thing is precisely why everything we uncover on our digs is recorded, brought to surface and preserved so that stuff can't go missing


By "preserved" do you mean just stored where no one can get to see them?
Or do you mean conserved, as in the correct measures being taken to prevent any deteriation in the future?
The very worst thing that you can do to many metal or organic items is to let them dry out after many years of being wet. They will just disintigrate very quickly.
I.M.H.O. gathering objects of historical interest but hiding them away (because they are too valuble, delicate Etc is a complete waste!
So many items in the past have been "preserved" in private collections where they can not be seen or researched. Things then are lost or taken out of context. :curse:
ebgb
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10 years ago
It's a real dilemma in some cases, dig into somewhere and reveal all kinds of history, artifacts etc... If you tell folks it's there, inevitably it will get damaged or disappear, or do you remove it to prevent it disappearing, which inevitably means it disappears anyway as the years pass. Or keep quiet about the whole thing, perhaps even to the extent of closing up what you dug out once more?

We've got one at the minute where doing 'the right' thing is gonna be tricky. whatever the right thing is. A huge amount there, but its gonna attract the wrong sort of attention as sure as eggs is eggs
http://bf494.co.uk 

Ty Gwyn
10 years ago
Surely taking anything from a mine that does`nt belong to you is theft i would have thought,
Unless the landowner who`s access you have had permission off has told you take what you like.
royfellows
10 years ago
Technically everything in a mine belongs to the mineral owner who often is not the landowner. Land is complicated in that there can be several 'part' owners, mineral, soil, sporting, and grazing can all belong to different people.

The mineral owner will own the mine, all the underground space, the spoil, the shafts, the adits, equipment, indeed anything relating to mining activity past or present, which of course will include what we regard as artefacts.
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lozz
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10 years ago
I always thought that mines and minerals could be two separate things.

I've got a bit of land where the mineral rights were severed from the land in the distant past, it specifically states the types of minerals that are excepted, copper, tin and anything else metallic, no mention of the mine.

Lozz.
Ty Gwyn
10 years ago
Roy is correct in the fact the Mineral owner owns everything underground when the mine has been sealed or abandoned,
In the case of coal its simple,the CA own`s what ever is left underground in an abandoned mine when the licence has lapsed.
Although reading on here the case of ownership of some metal mineral rights seem to be not so clear,especially when a big hole opens up on land.
But the fact still stands,its theft to take anything out of an abandoned mine.
Ty Gwyn
10 years ago
That dram in the first photo of Mistericeman is more typical to a dram in a coal mine,with its front opening door for use on a tippler,
The other drams in the other photo are more the hard rock drams,with their side tipping mechanism.

Any thoughts on this?
royfellows
10 years ago
"Ty Gwyn" wrote:


Although reading on here the case of ownership of some metal mineral rights seem to be not so clear,especially when a big hole opens up on land.



I like that bit.
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Morlock
10 years ago
"Ty Gwyn" wrote:

,
The other drams in the other photo are more the hard rock drams,with their side tipping mechanism.

Any thoughts on this?



The side tippers look similar to "Rugga" tipping wagons from Robert Hudson Ltd?

Edit: possibly modified for aerial ropeway by the look of the stub shafts?
Graigfawr
10 years ago
The end tipper is very similar to trams used in both non-ferrous metal mines and slate quarries/mines. The 'Y' shape strap on the side is very reminiscent of straps on trams used on one of the North Wales tramways - maybe Croesor? This may give a clue as to it's manufacturer. This end tipper is not particularly similar to end tippers I've seen from Welsh coal mines and ironstone mines.

The side tippers are a much more modern design and are very typical of trams used in hard rock mines.
lozz
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10 years ago
"Ty Gwyn" wrote:

Roy is correct in the fact the Mineral owner owns everything underground when the mine has been sealed or abandoned,
In the case of coal its simple,the CA own`s what ever is left underground in an abandoned mine when the licence has lapsed.
Although reading on here the case of ownership of some metal mineral rights seem to be not so clear,especially when a big hole opens up on land.
But the fact still stands,its theft to take anything out of an abandoned mine.



I'm still not sure...

I have a house that is in an old mining area, the Land Registry Title states that " There are excluded from this registration the Mines and Minerals excepted by a conveyance of the land in this title" etc etc

I have another piece of land, totally separate from the house it has old mine workings on and under the land, in this case the Land Registry title states that " The tin, copper and metallic mineral rights are excepted" and that's it.

It looks confusing to me.

Lozz.


Morlock
10 years ago
The side tippers are odd in that they have the Hudson type roll bar & the ropeway trunnion.

[photo]Personal-Album-1695-Image-98960[/photo]

[photo]Personal-Album-1695-Image-98961[/photo]
JohnnearCfon
10 years ago
"mistericeman" wrote:

It's sometimes surprising where stuff turns up .....

(Not artifacts concerned with the original posting )

These are in a farmers yard down the lane from some Gold mines in the Dolgellau area ...

No doubt just shifted from the abandoned workings long ago when no one cared ...

SO I'm casting no aspersions just indicating the loss of context involved in moving stuff like this .

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage



These are owned by the farmer on whose land Clogau Mine (or at least one adit thereof) is. I think they were quite legally removed after the mine ceased working.
Ty Gwyn
10 years ago
The only thing that is not particularly similar with the above front tipping dram,is that it does not appear to have buffers and a hitchin plate.
Several types of drams were used in the Welsh Coal Mines,squared sided as shown,Vee`s and similar shaped to Tredomen`s except they had chassis and frame work.
The majority of drams in the big Collieries went through chamber tippers,hence Hudson and Tredomen were the big players,
The majority of the Smallmines,in-fact all that i worked in used front tippers of varying shapes,even home made bodies on the old chassis,one Colliery the Helig in Cwmllynfell had front tippers,but the doors opened side ways,the only ones i ever seen.
SRJ underwater mining
10 years ago
"rufenig" wrote:

"SRJ underwater mining" wrote:

this sort of thing is precisely why everything we uncover on our digs is recorded, brought to surface and preserved so that stuff can't go missing


By "preserved" do you mean just stored where no one can get to see them?
Or do you mean conserved, as in the correct measures being taken to prevent any deteriation in the future?
The very worst thing that you can do to many metal or organic items is to let them dry out after many years of being wet. They will just disintigrate very quickly.
I.M.H.O. gathering objects of historical interest but hiding them away (because they are too valuble, delicate Etc is a complete waste!
So many items in the past have been "preserved" in private collections where they can not be seen or researched. Things then are lost or taken out of context. :curse:



It wasn't exactly being enjoyed when it was buried under 20 tonnes of dirt but hey ho.
I have no issue with removing artifacts from our current site because everything we find then goes into the museum up on surface for everyone to enjoy rather than just the half dozen of us that go underground there. No one will be able to convince me that what we are doing on a current project is worse than leaving stuff to either rot out underground or be stolen and put into private collections by mine explorers
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