Link below:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cornwall/8078444.stm 

- I am sure this adit problem in this street was mentioned in the local press in the past.

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I think important adits should be maintained no matter if the mines they serve are working or not. When not maintained they always end up causing trouble in the future.

possibly.. but who by? Taking responsibility for the maze of old adits around there is no mean job.

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I agree but whose responsibility would it be to maintain them? Not the council apparently.

Edit.
Posted this before seeing derrickman's reply.

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It's unbelievably complicated really, especially in Cornwall where mineral lords and land owners are a varied bunch... that's even if you can find out who they are.

It's certainly not as simple as having something like the Coal board.

The Land Stabilisation program and the county council seem to be taking responsibility in this case. Although the article mentions that they did not resolve the problem last time.
I wonder if ground radar is any use here or is it too far down?

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After reading this:-

http://www.aditnow.co.uk/documents/Old-Gunnislake-Copper-Mine/oldgnslkrpt.pdf 

I came to the conclusion that it's probably cheaper and less dangerous to maintain the adits. It's not the backed up water that's the problem, it's the fluctuating water level that does the damage.

Also, consider this. Old Gunnislake adit has 70m of water backed up behind a blockage. This equates to 7 Bar or 7kg/cm^2. That is a lot of pressure, consider the amount of stoping in the mine, and what's hung up. If the blockage failed, as outlined in the report, it could be like armageddon.

Considering the amount of ******* about the council do with our money. SWRDA anyone? They could avert a lot of this remediation by proactively paying the contracters to do the sorting first.

I wonder if rigging up a massive syphon to drain the mine would have been a better idea and then retimbering the adit. Look at those cap designs, they are immense.

The question is, is it a mine adit?
When I lived in Troon in the late forties early fifties it was a source of drinking water for the village, Troon was not on mains water until 1947/8.
In, I think it is New street there is a walk way down to the adit which was constructed for the people to fill their buckets, it is also large enough to accommodate the water carriers horse and wagon.
An uncle of mine lived in Treslothan Rd and he drew water from this adit by electric pump up until 1970.
The adit is very shallow I would think no more than twelve feet and less than that in places There was I believe a collapse in the eighties which was cleared by the council about ten years ago

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Surely putting in a concrete pipe or a cast-concrete lining would be better than adding new timber, it would need less maintenance?

As for water backing-up behind collapses, Force Crag mine in the Lake District is at risk from a break-out in the future if the blockage in the mouth of the no. 0 level fails, releasing all the water backed-up from there to the no. 1 level above, where the mine currently drains from..........

When I lived in Knave-go-bye (Camborne) in the late 1970's many of the older people used the Adit/Spring halfway down the road. Never was sure if this was a man made adit or a spring with a pipe outlet, in either case I am sure it drained the mine (Which was part of Pendarves mine). Not sure if it is piped directly to drainage now or not.

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adit or adit not ??

yep its an adit , and one with a reasonable flow in it...
whats happened is a big void has been created around the collapse by virtue of washout. As the flow though the void changes summer winter. we see movement in the dry periods.

who's responsible ......apparently not the local authority
They had to apply for funding to do a limited investigation..
And have i believe submitted an application for further funding to carry out remedial action on the adit & void .

should be fun working in all that fluidized material not :glare:

incidentally the same adit was responsible for the sewer breach in troon and we footed the bill for that work (water rates)


ramble over

pass me another malt spare the water :tongue:

This had me confused. There is a much larger Troon in Scotland, and it is certainly built on top of relatively shallow coal workings, so at first sight it looked as if the Coal Authority, or whatever they are called this week, would be responsible.

But clearly it is about 500 miles away, and no coal. My view is that they should put in a concrete pipe and be rid of the problem, not just bodge it for another few years.

By the way, is the water not backed up in the collapsed Gripps Level at Leadhills? There seems to be some kind of pressure recording device way above, in the Suzanna Vein workings, and if it is that high, the pressure will be considerable. That too might become a disaster if it is not fixed. But there does seem to be access upstream for pumping, e.g. at Wilson's Shaft, so it would be possible to pump it dry and do the repair, probably inserting a concrete pipe, safely.

I seem to remember the side of a hill near the Magpie Mine in the Peak District being blown out by hydraulic pressure, maybe 30 years ago. Fortunately, PDMHS have real experts, and it was fixed.

As workings get older, the problems will increase. Something will have to be done, preferably by some proper maintenance, and regular inspection of old adits. I expect there are people here who would be delighted to assist. Just think, actually getting paid for occasional underground trips!

I seem to remember the side of a hill near the Magpie Mine in the Peak District being blown out by hydraulic pressure, maybe 30 years ago. Fortunately, PDMHS have real experts, and it was fixed.

Magpie sough tail was sorted out with nothing more sophisticated than a JCB and concrete pipes - all you need is manpower, equipment and the will to do the job instead of dithering over whose responsibility it is....

Incidentally, Hillcarr sough is backed up with an estimated head of 60-70ft of water behind it. Another one which could be "interesting" if the blockage gives way!

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So that's what that was, under the cover on the Suzanna Vein shaft - it looked like a balance weight mechanism of some kind - I saw it a few years ago. I also saw a level lower down the valley which had a lot of water welling out of it. Is that the blockage you mean?

I wonder if the Glenglass Level (the drainage level) at New Glencrieff Mine at Wanlockhead has got a back-up of water in it. I worked at the Museum for a few months in 2005 and remember hearing that one of the mining companies (in the 1930's I think) had done a bad job of timbering that level and it collapsed subsequently. The only trace of it at surface now is a stream of water flowing out of a pipe below the old tramway leading to the Meadowfoot Smelter at the bottom of the valley.

Yes, the water welling up out of the "adit" is a symptom of the blockage. The Gripps level is in the valley floor, with the large iron pipe, and just upstream of the exit is a brick-lined access shaft, which seems to have been vandalised. Upstream of that, somewhere, is a blockage, as the amount of water emerging is miniscule. There is a parallel adit higher up along the west side of the valley, and the adit, (actually I think it is an air shaft, but can't tell due to the amount of water) is discharging the water that should have come out of Gripps level. The higher level is blocked too, downstream of where the water is emerging, and you will be able to see some partly run-in shafts showing its line. (It used to emerge at the smelt mill, to power a water wheel.)

That is probably why there are signs warning of the possibility of flash flooding!

Glenglass level presents an immediate danger if it is blocked. The workings extend high up the Green and Black hills, so a very large head of water can build up, all the way up to the Horse Level, which is only loosely covered to keep idiots out, and the volume of the stopes (which in places have collapsed, leaving surface holes) is considerable. New Glencreiff shaft has a heavy concrete cap. There was a level, site allegedly unknown, but rather obvious due to the wet spot, behind the cottages near the New Glencreiff mine. There is also the Wagon Machine Shaft above that on the hillside, and the old dog-leg shaft at New Glencreiff, with unknown cap (can't find it, probably been buried), and possibly some air shafts (possibly run in and causing the blockage) on the Glenglass level itself. My guess is that the blocked level behind the cottages will be the thing which blows out first, and the most dangerous in terms of the likely presence of people and property.

But on the other side of that valley, the drain from Straitsteps (not to be confused with that below the Bay Mine, which has a healthy flow) collapsed just across the road, maybe 20 feet from its exit, some years ago. Worryingly, there was negligible flow of water at the bottom of the hole, which has now been crudely filled, making it a total blockage, so we can assume it is backed up to the Bay level.

But it gets more complicated, there is supposed to be a deep connection between the Straitsteps and New Glencreiff systems, so maybe they are all backed up to the level of the Bay drain?

Someone ought to run a 6 inch diamond core drill through all the shaft caps, to make nice neat holes for plumbing the depth. It would do negligible damage, and allow the true situation to be known, before there is a disaster. Otherwise, the first that we may know of it is when the Loch Nell mine floods. Actually, you can probably plumb the depth at the Bay shaft, because when I was young and foolish, I removed a small piece of loose brick from the shaft collar below the cap. I remember dropping some pebbles down and estimating the time taken before we heard the splash. But the Bay mine is not the problem, as it is draining rather well.

Oh, and the water supply tunnel under Mennock Hass is blocked, but as it has negligible gradient and there is no pumping engine at the south end to feed water into it, I doubt that is will cause any danger.

Just north of Leahdills there is a walled-up adit under the road. Not much water emerges from the drain hole, but the shafts and adits above it on Broad Law, presumably at one time connected, make an interesting sight in wet weather. So there is another possible disaster in the making. I think the walled-up adit must not be very obvious, as no-one has broken down the dry stone walling yet, so I best not describe its position in any more detail. If you know the area, you will know which I mean.

if you want to see a real safety hazard, take a look at the "cap" on what if I remember correctly is Wilson's shaft. A rusty piece of thin weldmesh concreted (badly) on top of the collar. Useless!

I need to check the naming of some of what I have described, as one or two may be confused. My books and maps are at home, and I am not, till Friday night. I will also try to dig out some photos.

Alan

Hi all. Just been reading Alans report re leadhills and Wanlockhead .
Im the site officer for the railway up at leadhills and a lot of my problems stem from undrground workings especially on the east side of the valley and wilson, glengonnar mines and local shafts.
Im trying to investigate their condition and trying to map the underground adits/ connecting tunnels as we have various collapes about the railway .
Aslo in doing apresentation of the water systems used in the mine for power and drainage.
As Alan seems to have knowledge of the area and the underground systems associated with then could he give me and information or maps etc, preferable of list . 🙂
cheers
roy

Hi merlinrail,

Sorry, I forgot all about this. My books are at the other house, so I will try to remember what I have, as some of them are easily obtainable at the Wanlockhead Mining Museum.

Firstly, a single A4 sheet plan of the veins. There is a copy on the SCRAN web site , but I don't have a subscription right now. SCRAN also have a few more plans which will be relevant.

Secondly a book, a geology excursion guide, exact title to follow next time I am home, maybe Saturday. This gives some description, and locations of some sites, with dire warnings about not entering them.

Then there are some websites such as http://www.curriehj.freeserve.co.uk/sitefoto.htm . One vein shown there will worry you, I will describe that shortly. Here is the SCRAN linkhttp://www.scran.ac.uk/database/record.php?usi=000-000-510-373-C , but you need a subscription to see the full size copy. There is more, if I remember correctly.

Then there is the geological map, which shows the principal veins. Oh, and Oldmaps will show where the majority of shafts and other workings were.

The veins run mostly SSE to NNW, or close to S to N, but some cross at approximately right angles.At least two of these will cross your railway near the Glengonnar Shaft (concrete cap between the railway and road north of your cutting). But the N-S veins are the main problem, because they may be stoped out to near the surface, and have been worked to a considerable depth. Nowhere near the 600 feet below sea level achieved at New Glencreiffe in Wanlockhead, but nevertheless much to deep to filll. The vein from Wilsons Shaft, not far south of your station, will intersect the railway at a small angle, so there is potentially a fair length of track affected. The E-W veins at Glengonnar can be identified by the two adits driven under the road, one just north of your cutting, which are easily identifiable despite being backfilled at the entrances. The veins run west some distance (been in there in 1967, the more northerly of the two was still open), and there are deeper workings which probably run east under the railway. Not very wide, I think, so they may present minimal problems.

There was a shaft near the main Glengonnar shaft, on the left as you go in the gate off the B797, which had run in around the collar, and had been used for dumping rubbish. The ground around it was levelled a while back, but I seem to recall a few years ago that a hollow had appeared again, so the fill material must be spreading out at the bottom.

Here is a must read: http://www.wsharvey.dial.pipex.com/leadandlabour/ 

I don't know who keeps the actual mining records for the area. Coal mines are easy, but I suspect that the Hopetoun Estates (Leadhills) and Buccleugh Estates (Wanlockhead) probably have some records.

But your first port of call should be the museum in Wanlockhead. Their cafe does some nice meals too.

By the way, I do like your railway. My late mother and I had a trip on it last summer. We were supposed go be going around the Fife Circle and Alloa, then past our old house, behind The Great Marquess, but Network Rail caused it to be cancelled, so we had a day out in Leadhills and Wanlockhead, and then Dumfries, instead. I do hope that the problems with the sheep dip or whatever it is can be resolved so you can run as far as Wanlockhead.

Just remembered, I have a 25000 scale map of the area which is now out of copyright. I need to find time to scan the relevant part of that, as it would be useful. I really must upload some of the photos too.

Hopefully I will remember at the weekend to try to find some more relevant stuff.

Alan

Thanks alan for the info.
I already have quite extensive maps of the local area, both current and 1880 series . But your information has identified two possible causes of trouble for us . We are at present testing the possibility of dropping a cctv camera down Glengonnar, lammington and Wilson shafts in the near future.
I would be grateful if you could let me have your contact details to have a chat over the phone as it would be easier than through the forum .
The geology book sounds useful
could you send me an personal e-mail with your phone number in and i will give you a call. cany have our little train disappearing down a hole !!!!! can we. :confused:
cheers Roy / Merlinrail

Replying to an original post in forum subject of: Mining subsidence in Troon?

Did a trip out a week or so ago to have a look at some site around Wanlockhead and Leadhills (some pics posted in site entries, and still putting together some maps etc) and I have got a few more details / questions to add.

Leadhills Area:
Gripps Level: The was a small flow of water from the pipe outlet (in to the old mill leat) and there was a substantial flow from shaft 6 (southernmost?) and a smaller flow from shaft 5.

Level on western side of Glengonnar Water ((New) Horse Level): This was dry and the entrance was blocked of with stones - How new is this? because some old photos show this level discharge large amounts of water!! I assume the other thing in my photos is an air shaft (although I'm not too sure of the name because it's on the fold of the mine plan)

Also had a look on Susanna Vein and the concrete block thingy looks like a water level monitoring device (I got this to be approx on Landles Shaft - TBC) - Does anyone know who put this device in?

The shaft collapse at Watsons Shaft looks fairly nasty with a newish larger fence. The shaft cap at Glengonnar looks fine and I'm assuming there asn't been any CCTV down it yet. Wilsons Shaft is still grilled, however the 'water' is not very far down (say 10-20m), I'm assuming it's part-filled, blocked or false bottom (landing)

There wasn't any water coming down from Broad Law, however the area below the bottom tip was a bit boggy.

Wanlockhead Area

Is the Glenglass Adit the one which runs alongside the path and was discharging a reasonable amount water on the south bank of Wanlock Water (opposite'ish Meadowfoot Adit)? The was also a 'shaft type' feature (i.e. sleeper capped and metal lid) to the south of the fenced shaft at Glencrieff.

There was also some water coming out of the base of the Glencrieff Tip (possible Glenglass Water, however most streams in the area were dry) - Is this of concern regarding any stability (I'm amazed it is still standing at such a steep angle)

There was a large amount of water coming out of the 'Bay Mine' discharge and the flow was much larger than that of Wanlock Water (prior to dissappearing around Straitsteps) and the shaft cap at Bay Mine is still as described.

I've posted the link to the bgs mine plans portal which shows the mine plans (c150) for Wanlockhead and Leadhills areas are located at BGS Edinburgh, also there are some other scanned in on SCRAN and the estates may have a few more

http://www.bgs.ac.uk/nocomico/choose_search.htm .

Hoping to have a second visit out that way sometime and hopefully get a few more sites seen

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Hi Lee and thanks for the information, if you are planning to visit Leadhills again could you let me know and i will meet you there to discuss the underground working etc We are very interested in the old working for a number of reasons, not more so than we dont want our wee train disappearing doon a hole as they say up here.
My contact details are 01563 850976 mob 07703 530301.
many thanks 🙂
Roy
Merlinrail.