As AR said: "Gormless tofu-welders the lot of 'em, they'll be the first to be squealing "someone should do something" when they can't charge their iPhones 'cause the grid can't cope in the depths of winter...Cursing"

As an insider currently putting c.480MW into the grid from a baseload nuc station on Anglesey, we've only got another 31 days generating and we come off for good... Anglesey and Liverpool Bay are covered in windmills. Today it's only about 4 deg. C, it's cold in the house because of the gales and rain, therefore heating going full bore. Guess what, all those windmills aren't generating cos the wind's too strong! Same will apply when that big high pressure sits over the country in a few weeks time, -15 deg C and no wind. I reckon the grid is down to about ½% spare capacity today and will already have asked high load users to reduce their load.

Tree huggers and yoghurt weavers - pull the blinds from your eyes! 😠 :curse: :guns:

Think a few blackouts might do some good and bring some reality (and mineral mining - getting back on topic) back...

PS. Several more baseload stations due to come off for good in the next few months - should ensure we have nil, even minus spare capacity so get you old Davy lamps and tallow candles out chaps...

That's really strange, early this morning it was blowing a hooley down 'ere, I checked the national grid status (bm reports) and wind turbines were pushing out nearly 5 gigs or maybe more, load demand at that time was was around 23 gigs, you can work out the percentage figures.

Load demand just before I post is 36.54 gigs, wind turbines pushing out 5.16 gigs....14.12% of the total, that of course is the grids metered figure, what it doesn't tell you is unmetered to the DNO's, for that you can stick maybe another 2 gigs on top of the 5.16 gigs which increases the percentage contribution for wind power.

This hidden contribution is reflected by a lower load demand figure, which of course does not show up.

http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/index.php 

Horses mouth not the horses arse.

Lozz.

Lozz,

Winds in the northern part of the country too high (Force 8 / 9 in Liverpool Bay) so no generation. Probably the wind turbines around southern England / southern North Sea doing the generating at mo.

What bugs me about the tree huggers is that they don't seem to realise that for each wind turbine, you've got to have a conventional station on hot standby. A cold coal station takes perhaps 12-24 hours to come online, a nuc station like ours - days. A gas fired station a few hours - as long as Russia hasn't turned the gas off. ::)

---

The emergency private diesel start up times are impressive!

"UK National Grid uses load reduction and diesel generators in private hands, primarily used for emergency power during power failure, but with a secondary role to assist the National Grid.[17]
Until 2007, small diesel generators (150 kW–2 MW) were all started and feeding power into the grid within four minutes from receiving the start signal from National Grid. This delay was mainly due to the time taken to contact each set. There were four auto-diallers and modems each of which having to make the calls in series. The company has now switched to broadband where the calls are instantaneous and the start up time is now less than thirty seconds to full load, which is far less than any conventional power station.
With specially modified diesel engines (all standard factory made modifications such as air pressure vessels to start the turbochargers, air start rather than battery start, jacket warming, continuous pre-lubrication, continuous slow rotation, etc.), start up and full loading can be achieved within one second."

The problem is general ignorance whether it's tree huggers, yogurt weavers or whatever, some how all this wind generation reporting/chat/whispers by the media has got out of context, nothing new there then, as I understand it electricity generation by wind power and other alternative means was put into place as the fastest way to meet the UK's legal duty to reduce carbon emissions by certain dates or date.

It was not and never can be in the foreseeable future be seen as a road to total energy supply by the said.

Anyone can tell anyone that when the wind don't blow the thing won't go yet time and time again I here..."Yeah but they don't generate power all the time like wot when the wind's not blowing"...gosh really, now there's a revelation Mr Dickspring, you should get a job at the council....new Truro bus lane anyone?.

"Yeah they don't do it then and they don't do it when the winds blowing so they don't to anyfink".....Jeeze... what's to do...time will tell, it always does, meanwhile I hear the generating capacity margin is shrinking, there's only so many high usage light bulbs you can change for LED's....no worries the new Hinkley Point genny that they've been banging on about for yonks will be on stream next year...won't it:)

Anyways back on topic, tin for the foreseeable future has had it down 'ere so far as I can tell, I also reckon there maybe a few shocks for the Hemorrhage project over the border.

Lozz.

Well I'm glad to see that the comments haven't descended into rantings aimed at folk who are evidently so thick as to eat soy-based protein and who take a different view on the desirability of a lower-carbon future. I appreciate that it isn't to everyone's taste (and can confess to only eating it once, on a bumpy flight in Sichuan, so bumpy that eating it again was a possibility but one made a little more palatable as the food in question does look like congealed sick), but would suggest that holding more nuanced views on energy sources should not invite the sort of tripe* some of the previous correspondents employ. *Tripe, in this context, not referring to the apparently edible parts of a digestive system.

There is nothing nuanced about it. Unless you have some sort of a viable storage scheme, the huge investment in windmills and wasting-good-land aka solar is just unworkable utopian rubbish.

However, many people are getting very rich out of it, so besides the useful idiots and their daydreams, people are doing exceedingly well in the subsidy harvesting.

It clearly should stand on it's own feet economically IMO.

Anyways back on topic, tin for the foreseeable future has had it down 'ere so far as I can tell, I also reckon there maybe a few shocks for the Hemorrhage project over the border.

Lozz.

dont know about that, were not too reliant on tin, its a nice bonus when the moneys there thats about it 🙂

As AR said: "Gormless tofu-welders the lot of 'em, they'll be the first to be squealing "someone should do something" when they can't charge their iPhones 'cause the grid can't cope in the depths of winter...Cursing"

As an insider currently putting c.480MW into the grid from a baseload nuc station on Anglesey, we've only got another 31 days generating and we come off for good... Anglesey and Liverpool Bay are covered in windmills. Today it's only about 4 deg. C, it's cold in the house because of the gales and rain, therefore heating going full bore. Guess what, all those windmills aren't generating cos the wind's too strong! Same will apply when that big high pressure sits over the country in a few weeks time, -15 deg C and no wind. I reckon the grid is down to about ½% spare capacity today and will already have asked high load users to reduce their load.

Tree huggers and yoghurt weavers - pull the blinds from your eyes! 😠 :curse: :guns:

Think a few blackouts might do some good and bring some reality (and mineral mining - getting back on topic) back...

PS. Several more baseload stations due to come off for good in the next few months - should ensure we have nil, even minus spare capacity so get you old Davy lamps and tallow candles out chaps...

Sad but true, have a feeling its going to actually come to that before some sort of coherent strategy is in place.
Of course 'buying in' extra capacity has been going on for a long time now, that should get us out of a jam this winter, right? (assuming the transmission infrastructure hasnt been affected by said weather)...

That'll be more dosh for the diesel farms then.

Lozz.

The emergency private diesel start up times are impressive!

"UK National Grid uses load reduction and diesel generators in private hands, primarily used for emergency power during power failure, but with a secondary role to assist the National Grid.[17]
Until 2007, small diesel generators (150 kW–2 MW) were all started and feeding power into the grid within four minutes from receiving the start signal from National Grid. This delay was mainly due to the time taken to contact each set. There were four auto-diallers and modems each of which having to make the calls in series. The company has now switched to broadband where the calls are instantaneous and the start up time is now less than thirty seconds to full load, which is far less than any conventional power station.
With specially modified diesel engines (all standard factory made modifications such as air pressure vessels to start the turbochargers, air start rather than battery start, jacket warming, continuous pre-lubrication, continuous slow rotation, etc.), start up and full loading can be achieved within one second."

I confess I don't know much about this sort of thing but I was at one stage responsible for a diesel generator that provided back up power for a fairly large laboratory building.

I remember it had a box of tricks that detected the power cut and disconnected it from the mains before it connected to the building. I was told impressive tales of the disasters that would take place if the generator remained linked to the grid when the power came back on.

I guess things are more sophisticated now to allow generators to feed back in?

Yes with the invent of phase synchronisation etc it is possible to run simultaneously

Here's a brief overview complete with a video demo at the end:

http://electrical-engineering-portal.com/preparing-to-synchronize-a-generator-to-the-grid 

Lozz.

I see,

Ours definitely didn't have controls like that!

I prepared for the (apparently) inevitable last year.;D:offtopic:
[photo]103316[/photo]

I prepared for the (apparently) inevitable last year.;D:offtopic:
[photo]103316[/photo]

First rate:)

Lozz.

I prepared for the (apparently) inevitable last year.;D:offtopic:
[photo]103316[/photo]

Lister startomatic?

We seem to have come a long way from the original thread!
As I have often posted the large mining companies are more interested in economics rather, than looking at small deposits.
In my opinion, deep mining in the Uk, is now pretty unlikely, unless mineral values go through the roof.
As we seem to have moved to looking at electricity generation. Here is another slant
.A small firm has looked at harnessing hydro-power across the U.K. using, weirs, dams etc set up during the industrial revolution. They calculate, these schemes could produce, up to 2% of our base load.
(The proposed new Nuclear power plant will make 7%)
However, they need government assistance for these schemes and the minister has just pulled the plug on them.)
Seems to me this is pretty shortsighted. But then what do you expect..?...?

Unfortunately not a Startomatic, hand crank to start.
It was an ex GPO (small) exchange set with separate oil tank to extend the oil changes from 250 to 2500 hours of continuous running.
It looked very rough when bought but had hardly been used.
[photo]103317[/photo]
[photo]103318[/photo]

As we seem to have moved to looking at electricity generation. Here is another slant
.A small firm has looked at harnessing hydro-power across the U.K. using, weirs, dams etc set up during the industrial revolution. They calculate, these schemes could produce, up to 2% of our base load.
(The proposed new Nuclear power plant will make 7%)
However, they need government assistance for these schemes and the minister has just pulled the plug on them.)
Seems to me this is pretty shortsighted. But then what do you expect..?...?

The lack of any clear policy regarding small scale hydro verges on criminal mis-management.:curse:

Unfortunately not a Startomatic, hand crank to start.
It was an ex GPO (small) exchange set with separate oil tank to extend the oil changes from 250 to 2500 hours of continuous running.
It looked very rough when bought but had hardly been used.
[photo]103317[/photo]
[photo]103318[/photo]

The engine looks like an LD1 - cracking engines, totally bombproof. First engine I ever stripped and rebuilt.