It would need a damn good rub down first, to get them sores off.lol.

Scabs you mean.

Job creation for "Maggies boys" I guess.

When I was a youth and keen on becoming a geologist I sent off to the NCB, among others, about work in my nearby collieries. (Daw Mill was the closest)
I had no reply.
All the other mining companies sent me replies with brochures, promises of funding for my studies, naked women if I gained an honours degree, sun sand and fun in the South African sun (I made that bit up about sun and sand)
Just saying that put me off UK coal mining.

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Yes Dai Butt scabs he maeant.

Its a real shame that a productive energy source seems to be so easily abandoned. And the only discourse over this is in the pages of an obscure (sorry) website. This is happening while the authors of our current energy policy grow rich on fresh air and wind. Even a convicted criminal grows rich on this Nations energy policy of providing no energy. We are in a spell of cold weather that is not planned for in our energy plans. It is rumored that in February the UK was on the point of exhausting gas stocks because of higher than expected homes demand and the much higher demand from electricity generation. This is even before the EU large combustion plant directive is closing approx (I think) 10% of UK electricity generating capacity by the end of this month (March). The UKs largest electricity generating plant (Drax) is converting from coal to biomass (wood chip from forests in North America) wholly subsidised by Uk and EU taxpayers, and soon to be much larger UK electricty bills. Are we mad ?

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Is Drax really converting over to biomass from coal totally,or is this just a token effort of carbon reduction?

I`m imagining a lot more tonnage of wood chip would be used to generate the same amount of electricity as coal,all that extra fuel to transport the material kind of subtracts any advantage gained in carbon reduction.

Daw Mill was closing next year ,at the latest, anyway,the working faces were roughly 5mls from the belt drift,a new drift would be needed to work the reserves,i believe the otherside of a fault,but there were objections in that area some years back,when a similar project was floated.

Don't think Drax is converting to 100% Biomass - seem to remember something on the tv about it. Those who are quite happy to see coal go will be the first ones to complain when prices go up for electricity and if we have trouble maintaining our electricity supply. :guns:

I believe the biomass is going to be 50%. They are only doing it on economic grounds - the forthcoming carbon tax on coal burners with regular increments against 100% green subsidy for woodchips is forcing it on them. Won't make a ***** of difference in saving the planet when the tonnage burnt is being tripled for the same output -and hauled across the Atlantic first.

As China and India between them are planning 800 new coal-fired power stations (even Germany are building 23) the continued obsession in this country with renewables is becoming a joke.

the continued obsession in this country with renewables is becoming a joke.

'becoming' already is! massive investment in windmills that we dont even manufacture, and land based ones at that, which spend 30% of their time stood still...
solar is more efficient (no moving parts)
marine is more reliable

Won't disagree with that.

Another aspect of the reduction of coal burn at Drax (and some of the others) is the reduction in "by-products". Flue gas desulphurisation has for many years provided the bulk of gypsum used in plasterboard production. Can we step up production from mining to me shortfall or is it something else we'll end up importing? The same applies to the use of the ash in block manufacture. Construction costs going up?

I gather the general scheme of things is that wind turbines operate in the order of 23%of installed capacity.

I would rather not get into a big slagging match about the politics/economics behind them. It is however a massive scam encouraged by people who benefit from it in the money department. Wind "subsidy" farms.

Here's an interesting website for you all to look at.

http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/ 

Interesting point about flue gas gypsum. It is particularly good stuff as well. I also wonder whether power stations have a sulphuric (I'm sticking with the old spelling) acid output stream as well....or do they lime it and dispose of the cake?

Contrary to what many people think, I believe that keeping as much "stuff" under the UK is a good plan. I also believe that we should embrace nuclear technology and reprocessing and become "the world's nuclear dustbin". If you have a bit of chemistry knowledge, there are huge gains to be made in the separation and storage and management of this stuff. We are in an ideal place for it and people should really calm down about the whole thing. People have to accept that without current limiting factors on global population (hence why the word "sustainable" is a joke) that we have to either accept blackouts and a 3rd world electricity supply, or we have to do nasty things, involving making bits of rainforest turn into spoil heaps, creating lots of nuclear waste and generally being horrible to the environment.

Since tax is also used to influence behaviour, as well as raise money, it follows that it might be an idea for the UN and the emerging one world government, to stick together and try and join hands on a "let's try and socially engineer population by tax". In actual fact, it seems (apart from the middle class) they are doing the opposite. Perhaps it's to fund economies built on exponentials, rather like our own public pensions and state sector ponzi scheme which is creaking on it's mounts.....

Anyway, this is fascinating. UK really needs to get a grip with it's energy policy, rather than making "the in crowd" richer whilst not addressing the actual underlying issues of too many people, not enough capacity and certainly not enough future capacity.

They either need to act or it WILL get interesting.

""They either need to act or it WILL get interesting""

Sure will, they are trying to get to grips with HS2, nice to know they are thinking ahead!!
'nowt wrong with biomass, never be a total solution but 'nowt wrong with it, trouble is there is little infrastructure in this country to set up a biomass supply chain which is a pity as there is lots of it, every time I fell a bunch of trees for firewood I am always amazed at the amount of brushwood left, light it and get that going to a fierce blaze then try and count how many baths or showers you can get out of that heat....it's a lot.
Solar, coal, wind, hydro, biomass, tidal nuke etc we should intergrate them all.
All the money on one horse would be bad news.
We need a smart grid, and a ban on building crappy energy inefficient houses, every house should be designed for maximum passive solar gain, every man should own his own acre, blah blah de blah etc.

Lozz.

"What is it all about Holmes" said Watson as he looked up at the miriad of stars within the cosmic blackness"
"Elementary, my dear Watson, elementery, someones nicked the tent"

It's quite clear that the government aren't tackling serious issues, which I suppose leaves it to individuals/communities to sort themselves out.

I'm a firm believer that the biggest threat to the planet is the sheer amount of humans. All sustainability talk is irrelevant until that is under control. (however, it won't be). It's my uman rahts to have 8 kids and my right for you to pay for them!

It's quite clear that the government aren't tackling serious issues, which I suppose leaves it to individuals/communities to sort themselves out.

I'm a firm believer that the biggest threat to the planet is the sheer amount of humans. All sustainability talk is irrelevant until that is under control. (however, it won't be). It's my uman rahts to have 8 kids and my right for you to pay for them!

Nature will have an answer, plague MK 3, self destruct, the one that Bruce Willis missed or water wars, the whole eco system is finely balanced, it don't take much tipping, not doom or gloom just a fact. Check out The Aral Sea (if yer can find it)
Governments can annoy me sometimes, channel tunnel built umpteen years ago, recently.." how's about a decent rail link to it then" Same with HS1/2 etc our rail track was laid for the Victorians for christ's sake.
Same down here, they duelled the A30, all very nice except Temple, Goss Moor and Carland to Chivy etc...Goss Moor's done, Temple might be underway soon, Carland to Chivy...who knows.
We need more modern infrastructure not more bankers and bean counters and those that wear the emporers new cloths.

When are you doing FC anyways? Kettle will be on.

Lozz.

I need to take some testosterone pills before having a go at that. It's a hole and a half.

I need to take some testosterone pills before having a go at that. It's a hole and a half.

Nah, don't worry Stuey, I can can phone for help, our phones only 80 ft away.

I've just had another look at the plan, the mines plan is later than De La Beche's section (c 1839) Union shaft on De La Beche's is shown 180 fathoms below adit. I can't acertain the vertical depth of Union shaft on the mines plan (c 1860 ish)but I am assuming it is at least the same or deeper than shown on De La Beche's so verticaly it must be 180 fathoms below adit or deeper, on the mines plan it clearly shows that Union shaft was then sunk on the incline down to 240 fathoms, presumably from the 180 Fathom mark or maybe a bit further down, 240 fathoms seems to be the bottom level in that section, which is shallower than the Eastern workings I think.

100 ft or 500 ft makes no difference if free falling, just a bit longer to empty the bowls and laugh at the council tax ballifs.
A few double knots near the end of the rope might be a good idea although I know nothing about roping techniques.
It would be good to put FC to rest one way or another I can't see there not being workings above adit level.
As stated before, assume that the air needs checking, I don't know if there is any free flow air between Union and any other shafts that might be open etc at depth.

Lozz.

I need to take some testosterone pills before having a go at that. It's a hole and a half.

Nah, don't worry Stuey, I can can phone for help, our phones only 80 ft away.

I've just had another look at the plan, the mines plan is later than De La Beche's section (c 1839) Union shaft on De La Beche's is shown 180 fathoms below adit. I can't acertain the vertical depth of Union shaft on the mines plan (c 1860 ish)but I am assuming it is at least the same or deeper than shown on De La Beche's so verticaly it must be 180 fathoms below adit or deeper, on the mines plan it clearly shows that Union shaft was then sunk on the incline down to 240 fathoms, presumably from the 180 Fathom mark or maybe a bit further down, 240 fathoms seems to be the bottom level in that section, which is shallower than the Eastern workings I think.

100 ft or 500 ft makes no difference if free falling, just a bit longer to empty the bowls and laugh at the council tax ballifs.
A few double knots near the end of the rope might be a good idea although I know nothing about roping techniques.
It would be good to put FC to rest one way or another I can't see there not being workings above adit level.
As stated before, assume that the air needs checking, I don't know if there is any free flow air between Union and any other shafts that might be open etc at depth.

Lozz.

Whoops... digressed on wrong thread, appologies.

Lozz.

With the passing into UK Law of the Industrial Emissions Directive, using anything other than moonbeams, wind, fairy farts, magic mushrooms, yak dung and/or salty sailors to generate electricity will be illegal, which is maybe why UK Coal are not too bothered over an excuse to stop producing its product.

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It was scheduled to close next year anyway,
It was up to its neck in debt,and needed a new shaft/drift closer to its reserves the other side of the fault.