AR
  • AR
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13 years ago
The BBC has picked up on the problem of people using an old settling pond at Harpur Hill as a swimming pool...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-19266248 

I suspect the high pH may be down to seepage through dumps of ash from the lime kilns, there's certainly an impressive area of ground covered in flowstone leaching out from the tips by Countess Cliff. Looks like everyone who's been involved in the site in the past is denying ownership of the grotty bit too....
Follow the horses, Johnny my laddie, follow the horses canny lad-oh!
Trewillan
13 years ago
"AR" wrote:

Looks like everyone who's been involved in the site in the past is denying ownership of the grotty bit too....



Funny isn't it, as soon as a supposed "asset" becomes a liablility the owners magically disappear.

RJV
  • RJV
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13 years ago
Knowing what I know about it from reading that report then no, I wouldn't swim in it.

Cracking place to wash SRT ropes though! 😮
Peter Burgess
13 years ago
the pH scale isn't linear. Comparing the water with bleach is misleading. I am not saying the water isn't dangerous, but comparison with bleach is unscientific, apart from the fact that the toxicity of bleach is not just down to its alkalinity.
Willy Eckerslyke
13 years ago
Probably a good cure for athlete's foot.
"The true crimefighter always carries everything he needs in his utility belt, Robin"
tomh
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13 years ago
Now I know what I know - certainly not.

When I was 14 I cooled off in an old quarry, it was a scorching hot day and I had sunburn - never again as I did not realise how dangerous they can be. The water was clear though.
The fishermen did not look too impressed either!
exspelio
13 years ago
I'm with AR on this one, the problem is not with quarry stone, its caused by leeching of soluble residues from lime burning.
Always remember, nature is in charge, get it wrong and it is you who suffers!.
exspelio
13 years ago
There is a market here; Concentrate it a bit, bottle it, sell it as drain cleaner! :thumbsup:
Always remember, nature is in charge, get it wrong and it is you who suffers!.
Lister
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13 years ago
It can not be that difficult to trace the owners can it? Have they not heard of Land Registry & surely the local council granted permission for the quarry in the first place.

...Lister;~)
'Adventure is just bad planning' Roald Amundsen
exspelio
13 years ago
"Lister" wrote:

It can not be that difficult to trace the owners can it? Have they not heard of Land Registry & surely the local council granted permission for the quarry in the first place.

...Lister;~)



What are you going to charge them with when you find them?
Always remember, nature is in charge, get it wrong and it is you who suffers!.
Trewillan
13 years ago
"Lister" wrote:

It can not be that difficult to trace the owners can it? Have they not heard of Land Registry & surely the local council granted permission for the quarry in the first place.

...Lister;~)



Oh yes it can!

If it hasn't changed hands fairly recently it may not be on the Land Register. Or it could be registered to a PO Box number hundreds of miles away.

The quarry probably pre-dates present planning law, and I can't imagine any local council having a super-efficient archive system which might help in this sort of situation.
Trewillan
13 years ago
"exspelio" wrote:

What are you going to charge them with when you find them?



Good question.

Quarries have to be fenced, that is the law.

If fences are repeatedly broken down by trespassers, how much maintenance is it "reasonable" for the owner to carry out. If the owner can prove they have a system for inspecting and repairing boundary fences would they be convicted?

Breaking a fence is criminal damage - criminal law. But how would you identify an offender? No CCTV, no witnesses.

Subsequent trespassing (through a broken fence) is a civil matter. If the landowner took that to court they would identify themselves, which under the circumstances they may not want to do.

Don't expect a quick solution.
exspelio
13 years ago
This pond is within the "bounds", "area", or "curtlatage" of a quarry, how far do the rules apply?
I am of the opinion that education is the best policy, go up there and show them what happens if you drop a slice of orange or lemon into the water.
Always remember, nature is in charge, get it wrong and it is you who suffers!.
AR
  • AR
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13 years ago
"Lister" wrote:

It can not be that difficult to trace the owners can it? Have they not heard of Land Registry & surely the local council granted permission for the quarry in the first place.

...Lister;~)



It's nowhere near that simple. The quarry started in the late 19th century and was run by one of the firms who amalgamated in the early 20th century to form the Buxton Lime Firms. They in turn were bought out by ICI in the mid-20th century, and later ICI sold out their limeworks division to Tarmac. This did include some of the disused sites but some bits had already been sold off AFAIK, such as the ground the HSE bang lab is built on and the ground the WW2 bomb store is under. Other parts of the site have been redeveloped as a business park in modern times, and there's a speedway track round the back

As a result, the Harpur Hill area is a patchwork of ownerships and there are several bits of apparent no-mans land there, and the blue lagoon is one of these. You could try tracing ownership forward from the BLF but you'd struggle to show whether ownership was still with whatever company inherited the remains of ICI's lime division, had been passed on to Tarmac, or was with someone else.

To be quite honest, the only real option the council have if they want to take action is go for a compulsory purchase order and put notices in the press inviting anyone who thinks they have a claim to ownership to come forward, which is pretty unlikely under the circumstances!
Follow the horses, Johnny my laddie, follow the horses canny lad-oh!
Griffin
13 years ago
I couple of young people I know decided to go and build a bike ramp into the lagoon last summer. I have been telling them for years they should not be swimming in there! :thumbdown:
Dolcoathguy
13 years ago
I suspect the lime leeched from ash is being slowly lowered in pH by CO2. The actual pH will depend on the flow rate of the leeched material into the lagoon and how much CO2 gets dissolved in water with ripples, wind, surface area etc.
Some device to bubble air through it might help. Working with alkalis every day, once you get above pH 9 to 9.5, you may start to feel it and pH 12+ definitely feels soapy, although I have had pH 12.5 liquids on my skin with no damage if removed quickly, but it certainly would be bad news for eyes!
Is it safe to come out of the bunker yet?
exspelio
13 years ago
"Dolcoathguy" wrote:

I suspect the lime leeched from ash is being slowly lowered in pH by CO2. The actual pH will depend on the flow rate of the leeched material into the lagoon and how much CO2 gets dissolved in water with ripples, wind, surface area etc.
Some device to bubble air through it might help. Working with alkalis every day, once you get above pH 9 to 9.5, you may start to feel it and pH 12+ definitely feels soapy, although I have had pH 12.5 liquids on my skin with no damage if removed quickly, but it certainly would be bad news for eyes!



I think we are talking about OH here
Always remember, nature is in charge, get it wrong and it is you who suffers!.
Dolcoathguy
13 years ago
The same idea applies for K and Na hydroxides.
Is it safe to come out of the bunker yet?

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