PeteJ
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10 years ago
What's the picture? Is it the one of RG Mill and the cableway tower, looking up to RG from the dump?
Pete Jackson
Frosterley
01388527532
christwigg
10 years ago
A lovely photo indeed. But I suspect someone should ask permission from the guy who found it in the archives before sharing.
skimble
10 years ago
There's another photo of a loco, allegedly at Nenthead, here:
http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?17,5524223 
RJV
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10 years ago
There's a better quality version of that photo in (I think) Raistrick's Life & Work of a Northern Lead Miner so possibly on Beamish's website too.
PeteJ
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10 years ago
The Industrial Railway Society have been trying to find hard evidence about this loco and Peter Holmes is editing the Cumbria Handbook for IRS. It maybe a Hydroleum loco - but that is not backed by known evidence. It is not a Ruhrthaler loco. It has the name "Progress" on the bodysides. If anyone has any information about this machine, it would be good to hear more. See the "Lesser railways of the Yorkshire Dales" by Harold Bowtell for some images of Hydroleum locos used on the Greenhow aqueduct.
Pete Jackson
Frosterley
01388527532
gNick
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10 years ago
I wonder whether Hydroleum is a bit of a red herring as I'm sure I read that they mainly sold the process of an oil fired steam engine though they did make some engines. I may be delusional of course 🙂
Don't look so embarrassed, it's a family trait...
skimble
10 years ago
Here's another photo of a Ruhrthaler loco at Rampgill:

🔗99414[linkphoto]99414[/linkphoto][/link]
PeteJ
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10 years ago
🔗99413[linkphoto]99413[/linkphoto][/link]
A slightly better version
Pete Jackson
Frosterley
01388527532
ebgb
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10 years ago
"skimble" wrote:

There's another photo of a loco, allegedly at Nenthead, here:
http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?17,5524223 



That one looks like the one that worked in Boltsburn, I shall ask my neighbour if I can scan the picture of it he has
christwigg
10 years ago
I had the following file on my PC, presumably from last time Hydroleum locos were mentioned.

http://www.aditnow.co.uk/documents/Personal-Album-859/Hydroleum.pdf 
PeteJ
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10 years ago
Chris

That's very useful. Hope to see the Boltsburn picture.
Pete Jackson
Frosterley
01388527532
John Lawson
10 years ago
As RJV posted, the plate is no 53 in the two Arthur's book. The caption underneath, the picture is instructive, basically it states that this locomotive was used to pull waggons on surface, because of the fumes, but on the previous page, the picture underground, of the engine at the junction, there is no mention of fumes.
Since one, was fuelled using naphtha and the one in plate 53 used paraffin, I guess, the difference in molecular size of the fuels effected the exhaust gasses output. Looking at the 25inch to a mile OS map, the area adjacent to Rampgill mine was a parallel group of lines, presumably for use as sidings.
Plate 53 looks as if it had come with a load of empty wagons from the mill.
It is also interesting to note VM did not use a loco in their Nentsberry Haggs operation, I assume that this was due to lack of ventilation. In Rampgill, there was connections to the Firestone level and maybe, at that time some of the surface shafts were open.
ebgb
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10 years ago
"PeteJ" wrote:

Chris

That's very useful. Hope to see the Boltsburn picture.



been trying (gently!) to convince someone in the dale to let me scan their pictures as there as some absolute crackers.

puzzled me greatly that the main haulage level in Boltsburn, 200' down was using an oil fired steam loco. let alone how they got the thing down there.
christwigg
10 years ago
I suspect page 65 of Volume 33 of the Railway Engineer would be of interest. But I can't get to more that a snippet online (unless anyone knows someone currently in a US university who can get onto Hathitrust)

🔗99424[linkphoto]99424[/linkphoto][/link]

skimble
10 years ago
I think you'll find that "New Century" refers to the Ruhrthaler locos, not the mystery one. See the ad 8 posts up.

There's another article about the New Century locos "Petrol locomotive for Rampgill Mine", The Locomotive Magazine and Railway Carriage and Wagon Review, no 246, 15 February 1913, but I haven't succeeded in finding an online copy which is accessible outside the USA.
gNick
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10 years ago
National Railway Museum has a copy but you have to be there to see it.
http://www.hmrs.org.uk/library/serials.pdf 


Don't look so embarrassed, it's a family trait...
christwigg
10 years ago
Sorry i've compeltely lost the plot here ?

Which photo is the mystery thats not the Ruhrthaler ?
skimble
10 years ago
"christwigg" wrote:

Which photo is the mystery thats not the Ruhrthaler ?


The one in this link:
http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?17,5524223 
If it isn't displayed immediately click on the link in the blue box:
Quote:

Hier geht es zur gewünschten Seite:
here is the page you are looking for
» /foren/read.php?17,5524223



Or look in Raistrick's book if you have a copy (I don't).
rodel
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10 years ago
Is it not possible that the loco in the photo with the 2 young men is undergoing some maintenance ? The chap leaning against it clearly has an oilcan in his hand and there appears to be a hinged side cover folded down obscuring the wheels. It also appears that the top and front cover have been removed exposing working parts which would be risky in mine working conditions. Also as the 2 locos were purchased a couple of years apart there may also be detailed differences between them. 😞 Just a thought .
PeteJ
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10 years ago
The Ruhrthaler works lists show that the two petrol locos supplied to VMZ were of the same type. These locos were marketed in the UK by a London agent as "New Century" locos.

My opinion on the line up is :
1 Ruhrthaler 117 Type 12PS 570mmm gauge, delivered 27.12.1911
2 Ruhrthaler 160 Type 12PS 570mmm gauge, delivered 07.10.1912
3 ?Hydroleum? = two guys/oilcan etc photo
4 ?Nentsberry Haggs Mine - loco said to have been used there and abandoned underground.

The 1913 visit report of the NEIMME to Nenthead reports that there were two 12HP petrol locos, one working in Rampgill and one working from Brownley Hill to the Mill.

About 1950/1 two locos were in situ in the Rampgill Workshops, one complete and one in pieces. Scrapped after that time.
Pete Jackson
Frosterley
01388527532

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