Roy Morton
9 years ago
Ooh eck!
Cormac are in the cart over the reopening of Telegraph Street after doing some light treatment.
The front page of the WB also includes a diagram showing a GPR scanned area with a void below.
More stuff here -
http://www.westbriton.co.uk/cormac-slammed-over-reopening-of-st-day-cave-in-road-despite-radar-results-suggesting-second-hole/story-29533811-detail/story.html 
"You Chinese think of everything!"
"But I''m not Chinese!"
"Then you must have forgotten something!"
Knocker
9 years ago
The GPR survey showed an anomaly, not a void (the annotation has been changed). There is evidence to infer there is a potential void there, but you can't say there is, it certainly needs further investigation.

What is interesting though, is CORMAC actually state in the article that there is a stope under the road, if they know that and know that part of the stope has collapsed to surface, it seems counter intuitive to me to open the road.
Tin Miner
9 years ago
"A DIRECTOR of a mining search company has accused highways bosses of putting lives at risk by recklessly reopening a road despite suspecting that a massive hole lies beneath it."

quote from Newspaper...

Any bets on who that "Director" could be... Obviously that company or Director didn't want to put their name/s forward... Wonders why that would be... Is that Director/company qualified? and what experience do they have?
Knocker
9 years ago
It's fair comment though - if the highways authority have evidence to suggest that the hole that opened is a linear feature (such as a stope), and it continues across the highway - in my mind it would certainly be foolhardy to open the road without carrying out some further physical investigation.
Tony Blair
9 years ago
Forums are not the place for anyone to wear their work hat.

WB has recently made some significant errors in it's hole-related reporting. I don't think anyone sensible would want to be tarred with the consequences of being associated with such inaccuracies. However, they may respond to questions asked, especially if the point relates to public safety.

Experience wise "the company" in that immediate area has put in 1.3km of borehole under 50m from the road-hole. You'll also find that all of the relevant legal boxes are ticked, like insurance, etc. Because, contrary to popular belief, there are more of us than just me!

In the meantime, let's play the ball, not the men. We haven't had any complaints yet.

/work hat.
exspelio
9 years ago
Seems to me it would make more sense to strip off the top and drop a substantial concrete bridge in before the impending collapse, a lot easier working on back-fill than over a void----?
Always remember, nature is in charge, get it wrong and it is you who suffers!.
Tin Miner
9 years ago
"Experience wise "the company" in that immediate area has put in 1.3km of borehole under 50m from the road-hole. You'll also find that all of the relevant legal boxes are ticked, like insurance, etc. Because, contrary to popular belief, there are more of us than just me!

In the meantime, let's play the ball, not the men. We haven't had any complaints yet.

/work hat.[/quote wrote:



Ok then Stuey... you and Tom the stick... All I was asking was what experience do either of you have in working in an underground mine? - I know you're both mine explorers like I was... and that you have collected a lot of copies of maps, plans, CRO records, and maybe newspaper articles. That is good for the mining historian, but I still fail to see how that makes you, your company, Experts... just an observation...
Regards Tin Miner.

Tony Blair
9 years ago
We have no experience working in an underground mine, like 99% of the other staff who are/work for consultants. Do some further digging and you'll see others who have partially relevant degrees. It is all about experience and whilst we may not have been around since 1982 like the others, we have done a fair amount of site investigation work, in all of it's forms.

I've personally spent the last 10 years exhaustively studying the subject matter, I spent over £5000 on books. About 95% of them are not on any of the "what everyone calls relevant" reading lists (those arguing from authority). I'm sure if anyone was to devise a relevant subject matter test (as there currently isn't one), we would do very well indeed.

The bottom line is who your customers are, what they think of the quality and value of your work, how thorough, up to date, well researched it is and what your peers think of the quality of your work. After all, this is the test of your worth.

I've had some feedback from some peers (who work from other companies) about the quality of what we do and I'm flattered by what they've said. The only way anyone is going to make any inroads into the packed habitat is to be very very good, technologically up to date and very thorough.

Now, if you'd like copies of our work, you can email me, like any prospective clients can, or you I put you onto some good references, or you can ask someone who's had our work pass through their hands, at work.

We don't write reports to merely tick box, we write them to impress our peers. That's the standard you've got to go for.

I do resent being put in a position where I've got to justify our integrity on the internet.

I'm sure you haven't got a clue about what I've been up to for the last 10 years, or what anyone else has.

Taking people's word for things in the SW (Other than peers or clients) is asking for a load of bitterness, criticality and nonsense.

That is all I have to say on the matter. Meanwhile, if we are to discuss what has happened at St Day, what the evidence is and what needs to be done, feel free to add to the discussion. The subject matter which forms the backbone of the understanding of the situation has been evolving to it's current form for the last year. If you'd like to discuss this, rather than attempt an ad-hominem attack, go for it.

and whilst we're here, I've so far been in over 250 mines in the SW, with my eyes open, things have come on a long way since the Plymouth Caving Group. We've got 3d paperless survey capability and run the whole lot through GIS. Like the other firm who are towards the top of the game, we're also now paperless in the field. It's pretty good going for a couple of idiots. The other one having gained an MSc in the meantime, with distinction.

On that note, I shall put my willy away and we can get back to the business of discussing informal and non work related stuff.

lozz
  • lozz
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie
9 years ago
"Tony Blair" wrote:

We have no experience working in an underground mine, like 99% of the other staff who are/work for consultants. Do some further digging and you'll see others who have partially relevant degrees. It is all about experience and whilst we may not have been around since 1982 like the others, we have done a fair amount of site investigation work, in all of it's forms.

I've personally spent the last 10 years exhaustively studying the subject matter, I spent over £5000 on books. About 95% of them are not on any of the "what everyone calls relevant" reading lists (those arguing from authority). I'm sure if anyone was to devise a relevant subject matter test (as there currently isn't one), we would do very well indeed.

The bottom line is who your customers are, what they think of the quality and value of your work, how thorough, up to date, well researched it is and what your peers think of the quality of your work. After all, this is the test of your worth.

I've had some feedback from some peers (who work from other companies) about the quality of what we do and I'm flattered by what they've said. The only way anyone is going to make any inroads into the packed habitat is to be very very good, technologically up to date and very thorough.

Now, if you'd like copies of our work, you can email me, like any prospective clients can, or you I put you onto some good references, or you can ask someone who's had our work pass through their hands, at work.

We don't write reports to merely tick box, we write them to impress our peers. That's the standard you've got to go for.

I do resent being put in a position where I've got to justify our integrity on the internet.

I'm sure you haven't got a clue about what I've been up to for the last 10 years, or what anyone else has.

Taking people's word for things in the SW (Other than peers or clients) is asking for a load of bitterness, criticality and nonsense.

That is all I have to say on the matter. Meanwhile, if we are to discuss what has happened at St Day, what the evidence is and what needs to be done, feel free to add to the discussion. The subject matter which forms the backbone of the understanding of the situation has been evolving to it's current form for the last year. If you'd like to discuss this, rather than attempt an ad-hominem attack, go for it.

and whilst we're here, I've so far been in over 250 mines in the SW, with my eyes open, things have come on a long way since the Plymouth Caving Group. We've got 3d paperless survey capability and run the whole lot through GIS. Like the other firm who are towards the top of the game, we're also now paperless in the field. It's pretty good going for a couple of idiots. The other one having gained an MSc in the meantime, with distinction.

On that note, I shall put my willy away and we can get back to the business of discussing informal and non work related stuff.



Yeah..Go tell 'em Floyd.

Why does one have to have worked underground in order to analyze plans, surface features, drill test holes and generally be knowledgeable about such matters etc?

Can't see that yer do, most folks that are still alive and worked underground would have worked at a considerable depth where any collapse/movement would have minimal effect near surface.

They'll never fix St Day unless an awfully large pile of lawful English money is thrown at it.

Lozz.
Roy Morton
9 years ago
Perhaps they could lean on the World Heritage crutch for some money to 'save' St Day from utter doom. 😉
"You Chinese think of everything!"
"But I''m not Chinese!"
"Then you must have forgotten something!"
lozz
  • lozz
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie
9 years ago
Or some Euro cash....Whoops:)

Lozz.
JR
  • JR
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie
9 years ago
Nice one Lozz. I had that thought but I'm chicken !! 😞
sleep is a caffeine deficiency.
Roy Morton
9 years ago
If your avatar is anything to go by, looks more like a fuzzy sea eagle than a chicken ::) ;):flowers:
"You Chinese think of everything!"
"But I''m not Chinese!"
"Then you must have forgotten something!"

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