Interesting thread on UKC, Cave Access Ltd.· Page 2

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royfellows
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie Topic Starter

9 years ago

#21

"pwhole" wrote:
which is nearly always just about one topic, and it's usually the same people arguing,

Now I wonder what that could be and where they might be coming from
:lol:

My avatar is a poor likeness.

droid
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

9 years ago

#22

'Caw' said the c**w.

'Bollocks' said Milligan.

:o

Peter Burgess
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

9 years ago

#23

Yes, Makita are getting a huge amount of publicity!

BertyBasset
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

9 years ago

#24

Quote:

Yes, Makita are getting a huge amount of publicity!

That's ok though isn't it. Encourages more content, attracting more visitors, encouraging more advertisers. Capitalism I believe some call it.

pwhole
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

9 years ago

#25

It also shows that Makita are savvy enough to notice that a lot of cordless SDS drills are used underground on cave/mine projects, which may at least trigger a consideration toward useful design mods, and possible weight-trimming on future models. To be honest, most modern drills are pretty good in that respect anyway, but it's a good move, IMO, even though the target market is small - the promotional benefits, especially when seen dangling beneath a bolter in exciting expedition shots, could potentially be huge.

rufenig
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

9 years ago

#26

Believe it or not this is the new, well regulated Caving UK.:blink:

Since the new owners have taken over they have done a good job of controlling the worst excesses of handbag waving and dummy throwing.

They have also worked hard and gained some brilliant sponsors for prizes.

It is still an entertaining read.:o

royfellows
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie Topic Starter

9 years ago

#27

Most of the bitching seems to me to centre around the 'gate everything' V the 'free access' with CROW thrown in for good measure plus a few not very well hidden, hidden agendas.

Why was that thread started?

CAL has a policy of making access as free and easy as possible, so whether its a private company or the Mafia should make little difference.

I asked the question:

"As has already been stated CAL policy is that access to the mines on its schedule should be as free and easy as possible, and bearing in mind that there are no conservation issues, does anyone feel this this should be done differently?"

Re reading the thread it seems that the cat got hold of everyone's tongue on that one

My avatar is a poor likeness.

exspelio
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

9 years ago

#28

"royfellows" wrote:

I asked the question:

"As has already been stated CAL policy is that access to the mines on its schedule should be as free and easy as possible, and bearing in mind that there are no conservation issues, does anyone feel this this should be done differently?"

Re reading the thread it seems that the cat got hold of everyone's tongue on that one

I think the reason for the silence was because the yays agree that CAL are doing a great job and saw no reason to comment, whereas the nays could not think of a better system!

Always remember, nature is in charge, get it wrong and it is you who suffers!.

royfellows
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie Topic Starter

9 years ago

#29

Possibly, but I am still thinking about hidden agendas etc

I can perceive two kinds of democracy.
A is a majority agreement of the whole underground community.

B is say a hypothetical situation whereby a club or organisation suddenly receives a huge influx of new members, new officers are elected, followed by a change of policy direction which may be against the wishes of A

All of the companies I am involved attempt to get a mandate from A, as far as situation B is concerned - no chance.
Which is exactly the reason they have been set up in the way that they have.

My avatar is a poor likeness.

caver1
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

9 years ago

#30

"exspelio" wrote:

"royfellows" wrote:

I asked the question:

"As has already been stated CAL policy is that access to the mines on its schedule should be as free and easy as possible, and bearing in mind that there are no conservation issues, does anyone feel this this should be done differently?"

Re reading the thread it seems that the cat got hold of everyone's tongue on that one

I think the reason for the silence was because the yays agree that CAL are doing a great job and saw no reason to comment, whereas the nays could not think of a better system!

Having waded through it I have to agree - CAL have got it right and the naysayers cant think of a response! Not being good with subcurrents / hints (ask the wife!), or beinbg up with the rest of the hinted at stuff the hidden agendas remain largely hidden to me. Unless its a case of lock it down for the sake of just a few favoured people?

Boggy
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

9 years ago

#31

I've only held this name since about 1992 when the name was given to me for climbing in and unblocking the drains at the elk mill... sh*t job literally.
ill change mine accordingly to save confusion in future as I never go on that site.
:-[

if its a hole explore it...

royfellows
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie Topic Starter

9 years ago

#32

"caver1" wrote:
Unless its a case of lock it down for the sake of just a few favoured people?

Or to use as a bargaining chip to ensure access to places controlled by others with the same mindset.

Or maybe CAL policy is just seen as a challenge to what some perceive as a status quo

Don't forget we are talking about mines on the CAL schedule, nowhere vaguely fragile. Rhiwbach is gated with a combination and has zip lines of all things put in by the outdoor groups. Parc you could probably fire a rocket launcher in there and no one would notice from the usual state of the place.
Mid Wales mines have a light footfall and I have never had any problems.

I am going to try and get to the bottom of all this and drag it into the open. I have heard of all this in the past but took it with a grain of salt, but now I see a lot of smoke so somewhere there has to be fire, if you dont mind my old sayings.

My avatar is a poor likeness.

caver1
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

9 years ago

#33

I have heard many stories of groups in the northern part of Wales collecting mines / caves for their sole use, with access to others only granted after strange initiations and funny handshakes have been dealt with. This attitude may well exist elsewhere, and in my opinion is a very bad thing for mine exploration

JohnnearCfon
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

9 years ago

#34

"caver1" wrote:
I have heard many stories of groups in the northern part of Wales collecting mines / caves for their sole use, with access to others only granted after strange initiations and funny handshakes have been dealt with. This attitude may well exist elsewhere, and in my opinion is a very bad thing for mine exploration

North East Wales or North West Wales, or both?

Moorebooks
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

9 years ago

#35

"caver1" wrote:
I have heard many stories of groups in the northern part of Wales collecting mines / caves for their sole use, with access to others only granted after strange initiations and funny handshakes have been dealt with. This attitude may well exist elsewhere, and in my opinion is a very bad thing for mine exploration

Roy is known for doing strange movements and dances when he is training for Karate, but think he has ever made that an access criteria

:lol::lol::lol:

mike

caver1
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

9 years ago

#36

"JohnnearCfon" wrote:

"caver1" wrote:
I have heard many stories of groups in the northern part of Wales collecting mines / caves for their sole use, with access to others only granted after strange initiations and funny handshakes have been dealt with. This attitude may well exist elsewhere, and in my opinion is a very bad thing for mine exploration

North East Wales or North West Wales, or both?

The issues I was aware of were around the limestone outcrop and mines close by. AFAIK things have been improving of late, apart from at the OG shaft into the Millwr, but that is more UU than cavers?

droid
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

9 years ago

#37

This thread appears to have come to the attention of Tim Allen.....:)

exspelio
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

9 years ago

#38

Interesting question about the level of moderation, - Simon -- ?

My opinion is if it keeps the debate sane, carry on ;D;D

Always remember, nature is in charge, get it wrong and it is you who suffers!.

simonrl
51% (Neutral)
Administration

9 years ago

#39

"exspelio" wrote:
Interesting question about the level of moderation, - Simon -- ?

My opinion is if it keeps the debate sane, carry on ;D;D

I haven't moderated anything? Generally the mods on here don't need to do anything 🙂

my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by

mistericeman
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

9 years ago

#40

"SimonRL" wrote:

"exspelio" wrote:
Interesting question about the level of moderation, - Simon -- ?

My opinion is if it keeps the debate sane, carry on ;D;D

I haven't moderated anything? Generally the mods on here don't need to do anything :)

AND that is one of the reasons I love this place so much ....Grown up discussion is fine and thankfully Cockwombleism is almost unknown ....
Same on our series Landrover forum ....(unlike many others) I have very little to do moderating wise beyond moving the odd post to a more appropriate place ....

Maybe we both just have a heap more "Sensible" folks than a lot of places attract ....??