RJV
  • RJV
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie
10 years ago
Yes, but we knew there were jet workings round there already and indeed on that horizon for a good many miles in either direction. All LiDAR did was prompt us to look there that day instead of one of the infinite number of other places where we also know there are workings and in all likelihood, other ways underground.

I'm still far from convinced that it added one scrap of extra knowledge to the overall picture. All of those workings are well visited to the extent that they have routes marked through them.
Digit
  • Digit
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie
10 years ago
"RJV" wrote:

Yes, but we knew there were jet workings round there already and indeed on that horizon for a good many miles in either direction. All LiDAR did was prompt us to look there that day instead of one of the infinite number of other places where we also know there are workings and in all likelihood, other ways underground.



I should perhaps note that the site that prompted my original thought is well provided with footpaths, but is so overgrown with Japanese Knotweed as to render invisible anything 10 ft from the path in many places. Any attempt to wander off the paths in this situation requires a significant investment in sharp objects and effort, not the sort of thing you should be doing with someone else's property.
Also I suspect that by doing LIDAR at say 100 ft it may be possible to improve the resolution over that taken from much higher flying light aircraft - and much cheaper (once developed). On the downside the sensor electronics would have to cope with much shorter return times between pulse and reflection.
~~~ The future is not what it used to be ~~~
rufenig
10 years ago
Remember that Lidar only "sees" through vegitation because some of the narrow beam pulses hit the ground rather that the foliage cover. Very dense ground shrubs may still mask underlying featues.
christwigg
10 years ago
"RJV" wrote:

I'm still far from convinced that it added one scrap of extra knowledge to the overall picture. All of those workings are well visited to the extent that they have routes marked through them.



Personally I think that lidar data gives an excellent overview of the surface collapses and tips that you could never get from aerial photos, maps or even walking the hillside.

I would hardly call a rotting piece of twine and the occasional 1970's bean tin 'well visited'. Its hardly Cwmorthin. :lol:
RJV
  • RJV
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie
10 years ago
Well each to their own but I can't claim that I know that area any better than the areas we have explored without the data nor have we been able to discover anything there which we would not have been able to discover without it, much as we did a short distance to the east.

I might just be being technophobic but certainly when limiting its use to finding ways into mines I'm far from convinced it does much but prompt you to look in places you know you should look anyway.

In any event I think we explored that area as a result of a map which had been drawn up by other people walking the ground and we discovered the various ways underground by walking the narrow band of ground where the jet shales outcrop and examining each depression. I honestly do not recall us using the lidar data at all to any great purpose?
toadstone
9 years ago
Although this thread is over a year old now since last exercised I thought it might worth exploring again in the light of increased media hype over multicopter UAVs, I do hate the D word!!

On the original subject of using UAVs underground. I do think that on an amateur level there are easier less expensive ways of achieving "aerial shots". Where underground dimensions allow e.g. something like Titan, then there could well be an argument for using one but Mike's dangle on a rope (with gimbal of course) would achieve the same effect. Post production would allow you to either make it rise or fall. Talking of gimbals, this is one area to which the UAV market has pushed development and seen spin offs into photography which were previously only accessible if you had big pockets and now is expanding into the video world along with electronic image stabilisation.
There are in my mind 2 main issues in using UAVs underground, control and visual perspective. If we look at control. The vast majority of out of the box hobby UAVs use GPS as the main overriding control system. Without a clear GPS signal many of the newer UAVs will not arm the motors let alone get airborne. This feature as a result of recent UAV incidents is only going to be more common, indeed I wouldn't be surprised if legislation possibly via the CAA comes into force in the near future. As ever though if you know what you are doing, currently, it can be circumvented. However as I know only too well you have to be a bloody good pilot to control a UAV in freestyle mode, especially in the limiting confines underground.

BTW just to clarify we are not talking about the small sub £60-ish quadcopters which only use gyro stabilisation not GPS.

Just in case anyone needs to know why many UAVs need GPS before they will fly. Manufacturers are not daft and in order to keep selling these things they naturally listen to all feed back. Authorities of all shades, everywhere are concerned by the blatant misuse and downright idiotic flying by some individuals. As part of the much banded "duty of care" syndrome and the potential litigation issues, manufacturers are taking steps to stop such eventualities. GPS is already onboard and therefore it is a simple step to provide firmware which can utilise GPS and prevent the UAV from starting dependant on its position. I.e. Near an international airport, sensitive military area etc. some of the earlier versions of UAVs have an override freestyle mode but I do think this will become a thing of the past.

Going back to 2 main issues. Visual perspective. Any flying in the dark or limited light brings its own unique problems. As humans we rely very much on our peripheral vision for our spatial awareness. If we were to use FPV, which would be sensible in large system areas underground, you loose to a degree your peripheral vision. When this happens especially in low light there is a tendency for the observer to pull back to try to re-establish their perspective. This phenomenon is well known especially in night flying of helicopters on take off in to the hover. It has caused many crashes in confined areas operations. If FPV goggles were to be used it would most prudent to use an observer to give the pilot extra spatial information. In fact you can get an idea of what I'm on about if you have a UAV stand by it on the ground in front of you. Then just take off vertically no other controls other than the GPS lock on, as high as you can. As the UAV rises it appears to pass over your head as you look up and you tend to want to step back. Then slowly bring the UAV down and if you have a good lock it should return to the starting position.

Having said all of the above would you really want to be underground with the sounds of a manic buzzing vehicle nearby with the potential of it unintentionally heading in your direction!!

One of the good things about all this technology is the spin off into others fields of photography. Some of you know of my kite aerial photos. Well for sometime now I've also been adapting some of the UAV technology to my kite flying. Last November I made up my first gimballed video rig, finally last weekend I managed to get the whole kit airborne and below is the resulting imagery.

https://vimeo.com/162647662 

BTW if you think the video is off topic (mine related), think again. Apart from 2 quarries there are least 4 mine shafts in view. No prizes if you find them.

I rate this as a successful flight. You can see quite clearly the degree to which the gimbal stabilises the video. Actually in use I would be using the kit at lower altitudes than shown. This opens the door to more technology aloft. I already have a near infra red set up (stills and video). Now there are miniature thermal cameras along the lines of the Flir One. This, whether you use kite or UAV, opens up readily accessible survey tools for the amateur industrial archeologist.

Hopefully given a reasonable summer I am going to try and try out some of the toys!
Bill1980
9 years ago
That is excellent. Amazingly stable!
:thumbsup::thumbsup:
AR
  • AR
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie
9 years ago
That's impressive, look forward to seeing more footage!
Follow the horses, Johnny my laddie, follow the horses canny lad-oh!
exspelio
9 years ago
I agree, really impressive, keep up the good work :thumbsup::thumbsup:
Always remember, nature is in charge, get it wrong and it is you who suffers!.
Monty Stubble
9 years ago
I've flown one underground. Just a cheap one with an attached camera. It just had enough power to lift an Petzl e-light. Results not too bad. I used it up at Coniston and also at Nenthead. Tried it down Brewery with a fishing line attached. Only went about 50' down before I brought it out (flying).

I'm currently rigging a cheap RC boat with a camera and light to stick in a dodgy flooded level which has opened up near my home. That'll be attached by a fishing line too.
The finest workers in stone are not copper or steel tools, but the gentle touches of air and water working at their leisure with a liberal allowance of time.
Henry David Thoreau
pwhole
  • pwhole
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie
9 years ago
We used a LIDAR-fitted drone to do a high-res aerial survey of Longcliffe Mine recently, courtesy of Vertex Air:

http://vertexaccess.co.uk/vertexair/ 

We were able to make an exact volume calculation of the surface crater and make accurate measurements for hauling rig design and placement. This also outputted a 3D point cloud model of the site.

I don't think they'll let me share the model on a public forum sadly, but I'll upload a few stills later as I have to go out now.
Willy Eckerslyke
9 years ago
The only people who fly drones in public areas are voyeuristic nutjobs.

http://newsthump.com/2016/04/18/drone-pilot-furious-after-uninsured-passenger-jet-crashes-into-him/ 


"The true crimefighter always carries everything he needs in his utility belt, Robin"
sinker
  • sinker
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie
9 years ago
“They don’t seem to care that I’m going to lose my no claims discount. The bastards.”

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yma O Hyd....
Users browsing this topic

Disclaimer: Mine exploring can be quite dangerous, but then again it can be alright, it all depends on the weather. Please read the proper disclaimer.
© 2005 to 2023 AditNow.co.uk

Dedicated to the memory of Freda Lowe, who believed this was worth saving...