Hi Guys
First post as new to this Forum, will be doing a CRTT next week and was just wondering if anybody could provide some information as to the condition of the fixed aides etc that are in place. Was reading the forum last week and noticed that some of you were doing the trip on the Saturday, any help or info gladly accepted

Hi caveaholic

It survived 15 of us going through it on Saturday, or should that be 15 of us survived going through on Saturday!

No major changes since the last time I did the trip at the end of March:

(this is copied from another thread asking the same question so 'new' relates to new around March / April).

- The 1st abseil has got some new rope protection, a thick piece of canvas sacking bolted to the rock face where before there was just a piece of plastic sheeting

- Ditto 2nd abseil, some thick black canvas sacking bolted to the rock on one of the worst rub points, the red canvas rope protector half way down looks like a tea bag though

Update July - there is a definite cut in the 2nd rope, in the free hang section about 10 to 12' above the ground (from memory), I suspect this was from the rub point with the very tatty rope protector metioned above and the rope has been re-rigged to drop it down a bit. Take real care with this final rope protector - but in all honesty, rope protector and rope could do with replacement.

- Final bridge has got several more ropes across it, plus a peice of steel cable over the first section now (not taught, so safety line rather than zip line). One of the two rails has fallen off (this was a good while back) but somebody has tied an intermediate support to help keep the other rail up a bit, so it doesn't bend as alarmingly as it did.

There is a good boat on the 1st crossing, and (as of Saturday) one good boat in the chamber of horrors and one deflating death trap. But con't assume there will be in-situ boats, and remember there are now two boat crossings!

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First abseil is fine.

Second abseil has degenerated (yet) again - looks like the rope has been inverted so that the rubbed point that was about 15' from the top is now 15' from the bottom. The rope protection is starting to fail (in particalar there is a rub 15' from the top) and you really wouldn't like to have to ascend up the rope unless you were 100% sure that all the protection is perfectly in place.

There was a dinghy in place on the first boat crossing, but as ever it's worth carrying at least one.

The ropes across the bridges are okay, with the standard proviso that the Bridge of Death requires a very long cowstail.

The Chamber of Horrors has something of a boat deficiency, plus the "endless rope" system that's been rigged is a complete and utter nightmare and needs ripping out and replacing with something more simple.

It's also worth ensuring you land on the little beach about 10' short of the chamber end rather than trying to scramble out just under the ascent - the slab is steep and slippy; the rope is near-useless; and there's no space if you go across in two boats.

Other than that, it's business as usual.

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The rope protection is starting to fail (in particalar there is a rub 15' from the top) and you really wouldn't like to have to ascend up the rope unless you were 100% sure that all the protection is perfectly in place.

Can fully vouch for that, we watch the second rope protector pop off as one of our number was descending.

If you have a choice of dinghy, avoid the blue one as it deflates.

Thanks for all the info guys, i'm sure we will enjoy it 😉

Well 9 of us did the trip today took us 3hrs30. good trip and we all enjoyed it, enjoyed all the fixed aides.........Alton Towers bring it on :lol:
Did remove the damaged rope from the second pitch and replace it with another one (10.5mm) was longer than the pitch so left it coiled at bottom, so should get another go out of it
Cheers for all info :thumbup:

Did remove the damaged rope from the second pitch and replace it with another one (10.5mm) was longer than the pitch so left it coiled at bottom, so should get another go out of it

Thats good news :thumbup: , didn't particularly enjoy descending over the missing chunks of the previous one last week

That's why we old rockmen used chains not rope.One piece of falling rock and you'r a pain in the ass to carry 'dead or alive' out of the mine 🙂

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Only a suggestion 🙂 , but maybe a fixed steel ladder would be a good idea, could be a nice project for somebody

We thought a number of re-belays might be the best bet though it would likely make it the rescue call out capital of the world after man+dog gets hung up.

The Chamber of Horrors has something of a boat deficiency, plus the "endless rope" system that's been rigged is a complete and utter nightmare and needs ripping out and replacing with something more simple.

I don't understand, that 'endless rope' system is a great idea. It has always worked really well for me. The only time there was a problem was one trip last year when someone had decided to take the slack out of it and it ended up cutting it's way up into what's left of the middle wall. I loosened it off again and it worked fine.

It was fine yesterday too, you must be doing something wrong? :blink:

I don't understand, that 'endless rope' system is a great idea. It has always worked really well for me.

We didn't have a great time with it, without someone to feed it out it became tangled at the top of pitch and left us 3/4 across the chamber being pulled back by the tight rope.

The rope was in such a mess that we would have had to ascend back out of the dinghy to sort it out, fortunately the rest of the group caught up and untangled it for us.

I've always hated it with a fiery passion. But then I'm always the mug who ends up hauling everybody across, and when I'm last across myself I'm left shouting "guys, GUYS!" as the last person ascends out of the chamber and leaves me to untie, paddle across and tie back on :lol:

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I don't understand, that 'endless rope' system is a great idea. It has always worked really well for me. The only time there was a problem was one trip last year when someone had decided to take the slack out of it and it ended up cutting it's way up into what's left of the middle wall. I loosened it off again and it worked fine.

It was fine yesterday too, you must be doing something wrong? :blink:

:bored:

In my humble, for that system to work it needs to be routed through pulleys - not directly through maillons (as it is).

There is far too much friction in the system and this means that some poor sod (ie SimonRL) ends up straining away to drag boats back and forwards.

The routing is - as you touch on - also incorrect in that it brings the boats too close to the wall, which poses a risk of punctures.

To add to the confusion, it brings the boats to the bottom of the ascent pitch, which is not as gentle a landing as getting out a few feet earlier - and can also cause overcrowding problems if a couple of people arrive in boats whilst there's someone still ascending.

The original system, in which there was a fixed rope worked better in that you could achieve a much higher crossing speed by pulling yourself across on the fixed rope, while the dinghy could be pulled back more quickly with a cord.

It also had the advantage that the fixed rope could be used as a safety backup to grab onto to stop yourself drowning ;)


Copied from other thread:

Crazy Claire, Llion and I done the thru trip yesterday (Monday 19th July).

We found the first abseil rope was damaged in two locations, one about 2/3 down and the other about 10ft below that. The sheaf had completely come away exposing the cores.

Claire climbed back up and replaced it with another rope (cut off the end of the second abseil rope) and now both abseil's are absolutely fine and both still reach the floor.

The damage was not a result of rub points as the rope is free hanging after the first 15ft so it must have been through wear and tear.?..!

Just a reminder to everyone to check all the rigging as you go.

Cheers for the information.

The ropes were in a decent enough condition at the start of the month, albeit there was a bit of wear showing on the second abseil about 10' off the floor, we presumed the rope had been turned the other way up as it pretty much corresponded with the top rub point.

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Did the Croesor Rhosydd again today, a few observations...

The first thing we noticed was the the handlines that had been put in a while ago to aid clambering up to the incline shaft are gone. Hardly a show stopped :lol:

Both abseil ropes still in good condition (as reported in above post). Rope protection definnitely needs replacing though. There's a new piece of green pipe, but by and large the rope protection is either shredded or not quite in the right place.

Fixed rigging elsewhere holding up well.

As Speedy says though, check everything as you go through.

I rather share Vanoord's reservations about the endless rope system in the chamber of horrors. I can see the point of it, but it was kind of nice to be able to pull yourself across rather than have to pull everybody else across first!

However I think we saw a different problem with it today...

The half-worked away pillar that you pass under has a fair bit of loose rock in it. Next time you're floating past take a look up 🙂 The rope rubs on this pillar. Today we had a small rockfall from this pillar with a fresh bit of exposed rock visible where a chunk fell out. It missed the boats by 20 seconds or so; it wasn't a huge chunk but it would most certainly have sunk the boat and done some real damage to the occupant if it had fallen on the boat.

We left a good boat behind. The in-situ one from the past few trips is knackered. There are about 5 dead boats in total so it could probably do with a cleanup at some point - we'd have hooked some out but one of our party had taken a dunking and getting out and getting warmed up was more on the agenda!

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We done the thru trip about 4 weeks ago and the hand lines up the incline were missing then. I was going to take a bit of tat with me next time to re-rig it.
As Simon said, the rest of the rigging is ok, just needing some new rope protectors. Again, I am hoping to make more to replace the ones in a state, but if anyone has some old spare ones, please take them in if you do the trip.

It sounds like the last flooded chamber is collecting on average one boat a week..! There was only one dead one when we did it. The large boat and small boat on the pull thru were in good shape.

I wish people would take their sh!t out with them, there is always sweet wrappings, drink bottles and dead boats being left behind. 😠

The answer with the Chamber of Horrors is to put in a fixed rope that runs from under the abseil to the far wall, probably enabling people to dismount from the original 'beach'.

Then, the boat can be clipped onto the rope with a krab and pulled back with a bit of tat.

The system that's in there has a silly amount of friction and - as Simon notes - is too close to the middle pillar. It would be much better reverted to the original system imho.

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You don't have to use that system if you don't want to. You can always just pull your self along the lower fixed rope to the shore in your own boat with a bit of tat tied to your boat to pull it back.

The system is fine, quick and simple and already in place. No need to inflate your own boat or try to keep 40 yards of tat from becomming a soggy tangled mess.

I will add pulleys on the three corners to reduce the friction, that will make it even easier.

I think pulleys would help a lot. Probably a 3 or 4mm dyneema rope might help too - less friction.

Would be happy to lend a hand if you want it speedy?

But, I do genuinely think the action of the rope on the pillar is a problem. I was pulling somebody across as a piece fell out of the pillar on Sunday.

It must have been the action of the rope on a loose bit that dislodged it.

If it had fallen out 20 seconds earlier it would have knocked out / drowned / hurt / killed the occupant of the boat.

In terms of landing stages - I actually prefer the new one at the very end of the chamber. Have found the number of burst dinghies to be much less now people get out there rather than on the beach.

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"Landing stage" is a bit of a grandiose term!

Btw, thanks again for running the trip... was challenging but good fun!