Hello,

This follows on from the 'Will the Slate Mill survive' topic. I contacted some of the guys from the Welsh Mines Preservation Trust regarding it and got an interesting response. (see the letter pasted below)


This gentleman does seem interested to a certain extent and would like to meet in order to discuss further. He mentions setting up a team to do the work, and selecting a site.

Does anyone have any opinions or preferences on particular sites and would anyone be interested getting involved? Obviously just thoughts at the moment, but who knows.

Regards

Pete




'Dear Peter


Thanks for the email.

I agree with your sentiments entirely. These are some of the reasons behind setting up the WMPT in 1992. I also live in the southeast (North Sussex) and travel down to Wales about seven weekends a year, mainly recording, surveying and carrying out archaeological excavations at mines in Mid Wales. Unfortunately the Trust is only a small organisation and at the moment the main area of interest for our active members is in Mid Wales. We do work in other parts of Wales when we have the time (eg Catherine and Jane Consols, Glyn Pits, Pontypool).


Unfortunately we do not have any active members in North Wales, in which the Slate Quarries are located, at present. However if a few people were interested we could soon organise something. There are some wonderful possibilities in the Slate region such as Dorothea Engine House and engine in addition to those you mention.


The big problem is money and manpower, occasionally money can be obtained from sources such as CADW (although their budget has been cut recently). The Trust is a small organisation with 70 members of which only a dozen or so are active, we have very little money of our own, we rely on grants to carry out restoration work. We were fortunate a few years ago to obtain a grant of £38.000 to restore the Engine House at Penyclun Mine near Llanidloes. This was the first part of a two part scheme, the second part being the restoration of the chimney but unfortunately due to lack of funds CADW have not been forthcoming with a further grant. The second problem is manpower, if there were sufficient people interested in undertaking a project the Trust would help organise and support the project.


As you can see the first step would be to find a group of people to carry out the work, the second step is to identify a site, the third step is to compile a report on what needs to be done and the forth step is to try to obtain funding.


Where in the southeast do you live? I would be happy to meet you for a couple of pints somewhere and discuss things in more depth.


Best Wishes


Graham


Graham Levins
Secretary
Welsh Mines Preservation Trust
[email protected]
[email protected]
01293-510567
07880-81737

Maen Offeren is approaching the point of no return. It also has quite a number of intact items such as Dressing machines and a fairly rare planing machine. It is a listed building (along with several other bulidings on the site). Sections of the roof have started to go, but at the moment not too far to not be repairable.

I would put my name down on any list to help at Maen Offeren.

I sympathise with Grahams comments re volunteers etc. The Shropshire Mines Trust is a similar size organisation and has a much smaller geographic area, with the support of Local Councils and English Heritage we only just manage to cope. We also have a small income stream from showing public around Snailbeach and selling our own publications

It may make more sense for a a specific group to form under the wing of WMPT in order to work towards the preservation of this site. I suspect there maybe funds available if it became scheduled but it all takes commitment and I am afraid that is thin on the ground.

Mike

Graham Levins wrote:

The big problem is money and manpower ...

... the first step would be to find a group of people to carry out the work, the second step is to identify a site, the third step is to compile a report on what needs to be done and the forth step is to try to obtain funding.

In general I agree with Graham. However, I think there are a couple of other points that also need consideration.

For any site that is to be conserved, probably the first consideration is whether the agreement and cooperation of the site owner can be obtained. Without that there is no way that any work can be done.

Secondly, I think any conservation scheme needs a plan for how the site is to be maintained/managed/protected after the conservation work has been carried out. This will almost certainly require continuing funding and effort in addition to the conservation work. In the case of Maenofferen and its history of vandalism for example, how long would any conservation work last without the site being made secure and continually monitored?

Dave

You have hit the nail on the head its the long term that takes the toll - re vandalism you have to engage with the local community and get them involved that way it is possible to reduce the vandalsim.

It needs someone with charisma to take a project like this forward

Mike

Thank you John for your response, I and i completely agree on the Maenofferen site, i have always found it fascinating and it would be devastating to lose it.

And thanks for your response Mike, i did highlight in my email to Graham that the chances of saving anywhere is very remote.

But i would like the purpose of this post to see if anyone would be interested in helping, as myself and maybe others could possibly meet this guy and it would be good to let him know that there are people on board who are passionate about the cause.

Like i said before, just thoughts and dreams at the moment.

Would add my name to any list of people prepared to take a hand in helping.

Maen Offeren mill is IMO absolutely worth saving. And it's depressing to have seen how it's deteriorated, and in the short time I've known it. However Davel's point is spot on. It could be restored at massive cost and it would go the same way again. Short of moving it half a mile down the hill I can't see how that could be addressed.

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And thanks for your response Mike, i did highlight in my email to Graham that the chances of saving anywhere is very remote.

But i would like the purpose of this post to see if anyone would be interested in helping, as myself and maybe others could possibly meet this guy and it would be good to let him know that there are people on board who are passionate about the cause.

Like i said before, just thoughts and dreams at the moment.

To take this forward you should form an interested group and get a meeting together. Do a brainstorm and work from there with people with specific roles and tasks ie appoint a chair if only to start with, get a secretary someone to take notes and write letters/ emails get organised at that point you would have something solid to go forward with to the owners and WMPT

You are part way there with a small number from this web group. Don't wait for others to do it as it will not happen

Mike

Would add my name to any list of people prepared to take a hand in helping.

Maen Offeren mill is IMO absolutely worth saving. And it's depressing to have seen how it's deteriorated, and in the short time I've known it. However Davel's point is spot on. It could be restored at massive cost and it would go the same way again. Short of moving it half a mile down the hill I can't see how that could be addressed.

Maenofferen mill would be a great project. But it belongs to llechwedd quarry.
If the llechwedd management would be approached by the wrong person with the wrong attitude I know for a fact that they would be told where to go straight away.
Contact would be the first step of course, and would have to be well thought out.

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Agreed hymac. Yes, I knew MO belongs to Greaves. I also quite understand that Greaves can not be held reponsible for maintaining it, they're a commerical business and paying their staff and keeping the Welsh slate business alive in Blaenau is their priority.

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That may be where the expertise of the WMPT would be useful as i'm sure they are use to such discussions.

Very interesting to hear about it being owned by Llechwedd though, if there is any more information like that out there, then that would be very useful. Out of curiosity, is the Llechwedd museum owned and run by the same people who are still running quarrying operations there?

Basically the same I believe, but the museum and underground tours is run under Quarry Tours Limited.

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Myself, and a couple of friends came up with an idea that could make the MO group of buildings a slightly more viable proposition both in terms of making money for Llechwedd and also making it more likely to get grants (most of the buildings on site are listed). One of the things that stopped us was "How the hell to you approach Llechwedd?". We too realised that could go horribly wrong and it would be a one attmpt only situation. So things ground to a halt before they even started!

That's something that we can certainly talk to our friend in the WMPT about.

I can't get out of my mind the old Land Rover trip that they used to do at Gloddfa Ganol. That was fantastic, and you got a guided tour around an original site, which is rough and ready, but fairly stable.

Any ideas welcome

That's something that we can certainly talk to our friend in the WMPT about.

I can't get out of my mind the old Land Rover trip that they used to do at Gloddfa Ganol. That was fantastic, and you got a guided tour around an original site, which is rough and ready, but fairly stable.

Any ideas welcome

Yes, rough and ready it was, fairly stable it was - certainly on Floor 11, and it was equally stable down on Floor 5 until the change of ownership!

I think people ought to bear in mind what has happened in the early months of this year with regard to the actual site of Maenofferen mill - falls and collapses in the quarries have a way of quietly creeping along and then reappearing. One only has to look at the gradual subsidence of the Ffestiniog Slate Co's Bonc Siafft mills, which resulted in them being demolished. Also at Oakeley we have the recent events of the quarry being mothballed due to the continued collapsing of the old walls. While not wishing to pour cold water on any scheme which might result in the preservation of Maenofferen mills, I think in many minds official and otherwise, the whole site may be considered unsafe and as such it would be extremely difficult to get any backing.

Were it to be proven that the mills sat on a workable thickness of Old and/or Back vein - or rather an economically workable set of walls, I think the mills would be at even greater risk than they are now. Further, given that the presence of the mill tip and the collapse of the end section of it has stopped work at Votty, removal of that tip might be seen as a way of getting work going again, and if workable rock was uncovered in the process... I don't have to draw a diagram do I?

Sorry to be pessimistic.

Grahami

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I can't get out of my mind the old Land Rover trip that they used to do at Gloddfa Ganol. That was fantastic, and you got a guided tour around an original site, which is rough and ready, but fairly stable.

You're right, it was a very old landrover and a bit scary! Yes we loved the Gloddfa Ganol trip, can remember almost all of it very well, where as Llechwedd was all clean and tidy and apart from the ride in the incline car not that memorable for me. I bet many on this forum will have fond memories too.

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That's something that we can certainly talk to our friend in the WMPT about.

I can't get out of my mind the old Land Rover trip that they used to do at Gloddfa Ganol. That was fantastic, and you got a guided tour around an original site, which is rough and ready, but fairly stable.

Any ideas welcome

You must be a mind reader! That was part of our idea!

That's a very depressing insight into one of the many problems that MO may come against in the near future. An interesting task would be to confirm how plausible any future quarrying operations would be, and how much subsidence could affect the site. Albeit a pretty expensive task.

This isn't just completely focussed on Maenofferen though. There are other sites like Pen Yr Orsedd. It would be interesting to explore why that preservation scheme ran out of steam. Would this site run the same risk of being plundered for the rock underneath?

What was the rest of your idea for your MO scheme John if you don't mind me asking?

That's a very depressing insight into one of the many problems that MO may come against in the near future. An interesting task would be to confirm how plausible any future quarrying operations would be, and how much subsidence could affect the site. Albeit a pretty expensive task.

This isn't just completely focussed on Maenofferen though. There are other sites like Pen Yr Orsedd. It would be interesting to explore why that preservation scheme ran out of steam. Would this site run the same risk of being plundered for the rock underneath?

.......

Regarding PenyrOrsedd, it's a different vein arrangement there entirely from Blaenau, being largely vertical, so the upper mill is unlikely to be sitting on anything worthwhile.

Grahami

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Are you going to organise a meeting of interested individuals set a date and time, send out invites to all interested parties?

Mike