I am Neoseikan. A flashlight designer in China. When I was searching some interesting info resources, I found this site. I have never seen this subject before - Mine Exploration- That's really great.

So many mines in China, but few people enjoying the exploration in them. Common people like me always keep a fear of these deep and dark place. They are not like other cave exploration, which is a bit popular here. Mine accidents happen quite often.

As a flashlight designer, I got an idea: How do these people use lighting tools? Like other cave explorers, or different?

I am designing flashlights for trekkers, policemen and other people who need work in dark, and I also hope to hear your story about lighting, the demands and the suggests.

For example, I did not design headlamps before, so I hope to know, will you use flashlights too?

Too many questions I hope to chat with you. Nice to be here. Thank you!

BTW, I am a photographer too.

Yours, Neoseikan

I like 'mine accidents happen quite often'. Perhaps we need a Chinese forum Simon. :angel:

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well, I suppose that's true.

and when the spam does come, they are at least relevant spam, you can see why someone might think a mining-related forum might include people who wanted cap-lamps.

and I certainly wouldn't dispute that Chinese mine accidents are common-place

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Hi people. I think I come here not for spamming.
Mine Exploration is pretty new for me. and as a designer,
I hope to get idea from everywhere. Of course I hope to know this interesting area.

Hello Neoseikan,

We have the Scurion, which is a rather gucci, overpriced lamp which produces a huge amount of light.

http://www.scurion.ch/ms/index.php?lamp&lang=en 

We then have our Oldham which is utterly bombproof

http://www.gilgray.com.au/minersCapLamps/images/1GT5.jpg 

What mine explorers need is something that combines the utter indestructability of the oldham with the potential light output of the Scurion.

You need to aim for the £150 price mark, I reckon.

I'm convinced this is totally possible. Make it happen!

Good luck, Stu

I have seen the design of Scurion before.
It's quite good. I just didn't know you like them too.
I am quite glad to built a light like scurion.
Can anyone post a pic wearing the scurion?

Personally, (having seen one on a caver) I think the design is lacking. There is no protection for the 'lens' If it hits the rock, it will get damaged. It also looks unfinished.

There are plenty of "lego lamps" out there which look flimsy and are basically £20 of kit sold for a mega profit.

http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php/topic,8806.msg115241/topicseen.html#msg115241 

The battery is nice, but it all looks home made.

I'd say there is a proper market for a lamp in the £120-150 range which is rugged, seriously bright and has a helmet mounted battery. You would be ideally looking at 1 main LED with a pilot bulb as well.

Get an Oldham lamp head and have a look at the construction of it. There is absolutely no way I would put any of those flimsy lamps on my head. One whack and they'd be bent/scratched. If it costs over £150, it's got to last 20 years+ and not have it's performance compromised.

Perhaps you'd consider selling very well made kits that were easy to fit to an Oldham lamp body, as we all have those!

From what I know of proper miners they just use a candle stuck to the top of their head with blue tak, none of this poncy LED breakeable stuff.

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Lightweight is important, but has to be reliable.

Long run time, plus good throw and good spread of light.

The market for specialist mine exploring / caving lamps is very small and is already full of good lamps which are made by specialist manufacturers.

There is a lot more scope for making mining lamps, but almost all Chinese-designed and manufactured headlamps tend to be of low quality; have a beam which is too focussed and has no spread of light; are too heavy; and are not hinged so can only be angled by moving the head, not the lamp. This is unsatisfactory.

A lamp which is designed for the leisure user is very different, but there is not a big market for it, so it is probably not worth the development costs.

If you want to reach a big market from leisure users, then a lamp on a headband is going to sell a lot more - the new Fenix HP10 looks like it will fit this market very well.

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its not april again is it ,im sorry he not seem real to me , but they like him on m.e .

We then have our Oldham which is utterly bombproof

http://www.gilgray.com.au/minersCapLamps/images/1GT5.jpg 

You can buy 'em in the UK too 🙂 http://www.excellentstuff.co.uk/Oldham-DL16-Lamp/c-1-89/  (sorry, blatant advertising again!)

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Lightweight is important, but has to be reliable.

Long run time, plus good throw and good spread of light.

The market for specialist mine exploring / caving lamps is very small and is already full of good lamps which are made by specialist manufacturers.

There is a lot more scope for making mining lamps, but almost all Chinese-designed and manufactured headlamps tend to be of low quality; have a beam which is too focussed and has no spread of light; are too heavy; and are not hinged so can only be angled by moving the head, not the lamp. This is unsatisfactory.

A lamp which is designed for the leisure user is very different, but there is not a big market for it, so it is probably not worth the development costs.

If you want to reach a big market from leisure users, then a lamp on a headband is going to sell a lot more - the new Fenix HP10 looks like it will fit this market very well.

this is really another way of saying that there are two separate and different markets.

I have one of those Chinese mining lamps and I think it is of a sufficient quality. It isn't up to Oldham standards but it's plenty good enough and pretty cheap.

it doesn't have a hinge and I wouldn't look for one. Beam is a bit tight but you get used to that

I wouldn't use one of those headband lamps at all, because they wouldn't last a week at work, whereas I've had the Chinese one three months now and it's fine.

horses for courses

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I wouldn't use one of those headband lamps at all, because they wouldn't last a week at work, whereas I've had the Chinese one three months now and it's fine.

horses for courses

Indeed! 😉

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One thing, I hope to hear your advices.
You know, a built-in li-on batteries pack might make people worried. If I build a headlamp, I hope to use 4* NOKIA batteries.
Do you think this is wise or crazy?

Li-on battery packs are rapidly becoming the norm for belt-mounted and hand-carried lamps.

I would greatly doubt that mobile phone batteries would give a useful output or endurance?

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Li-ion is fine, it would probably be 7.2v?

Li-po batteries have not yet been used in headlamps: there is concern that they may explode although they have been safely used in mobile phones for a couple of years.

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Perhaps you'd consider selling very well made kits that were easy to fit to an Oldham lamp body, as we all have those!

There is one LED kit that fits into the Oldham that is made by me, the Retro2, designed and built in the UK.

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There is one LED kit that fits into the Oldham that is made by me, the Retro2, designed and built in the UK.

http://www.mineexplorer.org.uk/ledlighting.htm  😉

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One thing, I hope to hear your advices.
You know, a built-in li-on batteries pack might make people worried. If I build a headlamp, I hope to use 4* NOKIA batteries.
Do you think this is wise or crazy?

Initially sounded quite potty, but I guess if you've got 4 x 1500mah battery packs that's more than a pair of 18650s. Albeit in a rather funny shaped battery pack surely.

Although let's not start the my 18650 is better than your 18650 debate. What it says on the label is not always what it holds :lol:

I think you'd be far better off going for a more conventional battery pack though.

And I don't think you'll find anybody has any worries about LiIon.

As one Chinese manufacturer of mining lamps said to me when I pressed them over and over about certifications they claimed for a product they were trying to sell me "do not worry about safety, it has never caused an explosion yet" :lol:

The Sten, the Scurion, the new Viper, various Chinese mining lamps and the Oldham DL16 all use LiIon so it's quite accepted.

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considering the prevalence of mine explosions and fires in China, I think that's quite a big statement...

what they mean is, 'we can print anything we like on the case, but we don't intend to comply with your testing procedure'

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