simonrl
  • simonrl
  • 51% (Neutral)
  • Administration Topic Starter
16 years ago
The entire media is jumping on the 25th Anniversary of the Miners' Strike at the moment, but if anybody's near a radio at the moment it's being discussed on the Jeremy Vine show on Radio 2.
my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by
jagman
  • jagman
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie
16 years ago
"simonrl" wrote:

The entire media is jumping on the 25th Anniversary of the Miners' Strike at the moment, but if anybody's near a radio at the moment it's being discussed on the Jeremy Vine show on Radio 2.



I'm not allowed to listen to Jeremy Vine on the radio.
I accidently broke one in a works van whilst listening to some pinko feminist equality type on his show a few weeks ago.
Her indoors has started removing objects from my reach whilst watching the news on telly now to prevent me hurling anything at it 🙂
apparently I get quite heated everytime a politician appears and speaks 😞
simonrl
  • simonrl
  • 51% (Neutral)
  • Administration Topic Starter
16 years ago
I think he does quite well staying calm with some of the people he has on!

This report was shorter than I'd expected but had some good snippets of interview.

Loads on the Beeb about the 25th anniversary, good starting point here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/topics/miners_strike 

Thought some comment pass appear on here, if anybody has got anything to add to the subject, from either side, please feel free.
my orders are to sit here and watch the world go by
toadstone
16 years ago
I have very mixed emotions and memories of the strike. On the one hand men who were good and honest and wanted terms and conditions that were fair were dragged into a opportunistic political fight of which in the end there would be no winners. Like so many battles the victory was pyrrhic. Yes the unions were brought to heal some would say justifiably so but it sounded the death knell of industrial worth in this country. Its effect went far beyond the coalfields of the UK. I remember Corby too.

I can remember the sadness and loneliness of miners' families when we did a benefit for them near Chesterfield, I can remember the vicious nasty bully boy tactics of the police. But worst of all the division within communities that had once been united that in some cases even today have not healed and by all accounts will never heal.

Such is the inheritance of Scargill & Thatcher. To paraphrase Mr Churchill Never have so many suffered at the personal animosity of The Two.

It is an Anniversary I personally would prefer to forget.
Lister
  • Lister
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie
16 years ago
"jagman" wrote:



I'm not allowed to listen to Jeremy Vine on the radio.
I accidently broke one in a works van whilst listening to some pinko feminist equality type on his show a few weeks ago.
Her indoors has started removing objects from my reach whilst watching the news on telly now to prevent me hurling anything at it 🙂
apparently I get quite heated everytime a politician appears and speaks 😞


Hey Jagman I used to have the same problem with the telly before I stopped watching it! The solution was a hose brick shaped piece of foam with was regularly hurled at the T.V screen, great for relieving your frustration, get one! :curse:

...Lister;~)
'Adventure is just bad planning' Roald Amundsen
Buckhill
16 years ago
All that strike achieved was a much quicker and far reaching run-down of an industry that at this time is really needed.

A brief prelude in 1981, over the proposed closure of a few virtually finished pits, saw the government back down. They had been warned in the clearest way though that Scargill wanted to emulate Joe Gormley and bring down a government not of his liking.

Over the next two years there was a quiet conversion of coal fired power stations to allow them to burn oil and with more oil use the coal stocks built up. Whereas Joe had fought over pay and conditions and had used a bit of thought in his campaigns of '72 & '74, Scargill hadn't a clue.

Joe had begun overtime bans in autumn '71 & '73, giving Heath time to reflect on the consequences of an all out strike. When the strikes began in February there was little in stock so it hit hard right away. The men actually ended up better off despite losing weeks of pay than had they accepted Heath's offer.

Scargill waited until spring then, legitimately, imposed a national overtime ban. It was obvious that if a national ballot had been held there would not have been the necessary majority in favour of a strike so he cheated. The NUM is a federated union, each coalfield having its own union. The more militant coalfields had branch officials who shared his views and there they called area strikes - quite within the rules. The more moderate areas, usually smaller, refused to go along with it - although some later gave in when told that their area union would be wound up and absorbed by another. I know that the feeling of many men could be summed up by what was said to me - "If he'd given us a national ballot I would have voted for it but that b****** isn't gonna tell me what to do". So all summer long the strike went on and oil came inso that when winter arrived there wasn't any problem in keeping the lights on.

The outcome was inevitable. The NUM was broken and the government finished the job by accelerating the run-down of the industry to remove any further threat.

The trouble is, as we are now seeing, the consequences, which many of us predicted at the time are all too real. Oil and gas prices are sky high, controlled by countries which were just waiting for us to be reliant upon them. And an indigenous resource sitting, part sterilised, and with the bulk of the skilled workforce now reaching an age where they couldn't do the job if needed.

In case anyone wonders where I was during that time - yes I was working in the industry - no I wasn't on strike (not for any reason other than I wasn't an NUM member). But like many others I lost my job, at a pit with ample reserves which had recently made a profit of £2m and where I thought I would still be to this day.

What grieves me is the way in which so many senior managers (not colliery managers) in the industry betrayed their roots by being complicit in the government's revenge, actively supporting the connivance at proving that almost every pit was exhausted, chronically unviable or too dangerous to be allowed to continue. (The film "Brassed Off" summed it up in the scene where Gloria tries to give her report to the chief a******e and he tells her it isn't needed because "the decision to close the pit was made three years ago").

All those people, along with the cabinet ministers and the NUM executive members who supported Scargill should have been put with him and Maggie in one of the pits before it was filled and capped. Trouble is every one of them have enjoyed a comfortable life since while the pawns bore the misery.

Rant over for now.

carnkie
16 years ago
"Buckhill" wrote:


Scargill waited until spring then, legitimately, imposed a national overtime ban. It was obvious that if a national ballot had been held there would not have been the necessary majority in favour of a strike so he cheated. The NUM is a federated union, each coalfield having its own union. The more militant coalfields had branch officials who shared his views and there they called area strikes - quite within the rules. The more moderate areas, usually smaller, refused to go along with it - although some later gave in when told that their area union would be wound up and absorbed by another. I know that the feeling of many men could be summed up by what was said to me - "If he'd given us a national ballot I would have voted for it but that b****** isn't gonna tell me what to do". So all summer long the strike went on and oil came inso that when winter arrived there wasn't any problem in keeping the lights on.

The outcome was inevitable. The NUM was broken and the government finished the job by accelerating the run-down of the industry to remove any further threat.

The trouble is, as we are now seeing, the consequences, which many of us predicted at the time are all too real. Oil and gas prices are sky high, controlled by countries which were just waiting for us to be reliant upon them. And an indigenous resource sitting, part sterilised, and with the bulk of the skilled workforce now reaching an age where they couldn't do the job if neede



I agree entirely with your rant. Just to add that I think Thatcher used this to destabalise union power, not just the NUM, in general with the connivance of the the other egomaniac. A lose lose situation as far as everynone else is concerned. And of course as you say since then this country has never had a coherent energy policicy. Eggs in one basket again. We could talk about stocks of coal at power stations at the time, no vote, etc, but to my mind we end up with an awful lot of human suffering and no energy policy due to two egomaniacs.
The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.
Cornish Pixie
16 years ago
I remember this time well, as I marched with the miners in the 'Coal not Dole' protest in London where I was a student. It wasn't just the coal mines that felt Maggie's wrath - she was determined to end the Cornish tin mining industry too as this poster depicts:

[photo]Personal-Album-2602-Image-002[/photo]

She was one of the most disastrous things to have happened to Britain since WW2 😢
Den heb davaz a gollaz i dir
Morlock
16 years ago
"carnkie
no energy policy due to two egomaniacs.[/quote wrote:



I think the lack of an energy policy is down to a third egomaniac myself.

ICLOK
  • ICLOK
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie
16 years ago
However there were occasional lighter moments....What follows is completely true and the 3 guys with me that night remember it well as they too are mining fans, this came up recently in conversation because of the anniversary.

I was sat in the Coppice Hotel in Shipley Park in Derbyshire one Sunday night when a very flustered and frankly p***ed off police Sergeant came into the bar, he was soaked thru and in a very London accent says...."Can you tell us where Coppice Colliery is, we've been drivin round in a coach lookin for ages"....

"Why" I asked

"Flying pickets..... see sir..we've got this map of collieries being targeted" he replied with attitude...

I looked at the maps....

"Flying pickets... I think. you've been.....?" but before I could finish he cut in...

"Look... were in a hurry, do you know or not"? he said aggressively

So being slightly affronted I gave him minutely accurate directions which he wrote down .... he just turned round with a quick-

"Right then, bye"

As he got to the door I shouted after him...

"I wouldn't bother though"

"Why" he replied..

"Because it closed in the 60's, that was what I was going to tell you before you cut me dead"

He looked gutted, apologised and came back..... it appeared they had been looking for the now long gone Ormonde, Coppice & Woodside collieries. These were circled on a tatty copy of the 1960 OS map they had.... ! Apparently someone on the other side had sent a list & the map to the police telling them were the pickets were headin as they didn't agree with the strike!!! :lol:

AND

My father in law was here today and he was a bobby around Chesterfield and got sent with a mate to the Coalite Coke plant..... he turned up and there were a couple of pickets with a fire outside the gates.
Seeing no aggression he went over to say hello....
One of the pickets turned out to be his Dad!!! :lol:
Whose opening line was "fetch us some fags son"

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!
ICLOK
  • ICLOK
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie
16 years ago
Morlock..... have a read of this.... Its very black but I feel close enough to the mark we should worry!!
http://www.howitends.co.uk/infrastructure-investment.php 
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!
Morlock
16 years ago
"ICLOK" wrote:

Morlock..... have a read of this.... Its very black but I feel close enough to the mark we should worry!!
http://www.howitends.co.uk/infrastructure-investment.php 



Yep, agree entirely, it's been coming since Maggies time. I have been worried for years. :curse:
ICLOK
  • ICLOK
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie
16 years ago
I work in international rail but come across people from huge companies in the energy business as well as rail....

All agree the UK has left it too late and that the viability of green is not really viable when you add in all the costs. One guy (engineering consultant in nuclear industry) I was with recently at a railway auction told me of timescale studies carried out for this govt over 5 years ago said it would take 15 years to pass, procure, develop and build any proposed nuclear power station of which 3-5 years would be enquirys for each plant dealing with the Nimby's.
Another one of my contacts in private coal mining has said that even where reserves of coal in UK exist, they are often put off by the battle to exploit them ..... and have in fact been more or less told to back off as it doesn't go well with the gov't green credentials...

I think as a country we need to decide whether we want, power and jobs, or pretty flowers, cold winters and unemployment!

The govt seem to be ignoring energy in the hope it will go away!
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh Creeper!!!!!
cobba
  • cobba
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie
16 years ago
what went on happened rightly or wrongly as the case may be.all i know is that most of my true friends are ones who i stood alongside on picket lines for 12 months
today we held a picket outside Littleton to let people now we are still about and true to our beliefs from that time
still bitter and twisted after all these years and laughing with the lads and lasses
were we right,only time the avenger will tell 😉
cobba
Morlock
16 years ago
"ICLOK" wrote:

I work in international rail but come across people from huge companies in the energy business as well as rail....

All agree the UK has left it too late and that the viability of green is not really viable when you add in all the costs. One guy (engineering consultant in nuclear industry) I was with recently at a railway auction told me of timescale studies carried out for this govt over 5 years ago said it would take 15 years to pass, procure, develop and build any proposed nuclear power station of which 3-5 years would be enquirys for each plant dealing with the Nimby's.
Another one of my contacts in private coal mining has said that even where reserves of coal in UK exist, they are often put off by the battle to exploit them ..... and have in fact been more or less told to back off as it doesn't go well with the gov't green credentials...

I think as a country we need to decide whether we want, power and jobs, or pretty flowers, cold winters and unemployment!

The govt seem to be ignoring energy in the hope it will go away!



All very true, we need to get our priorities right and cut though ALL of the PC bullshit.
carnkie
16 years ago
I agree but one priority is reducing public enquierys from years to about twenty minutes or cut the bloody things altogether.
The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.
Tezarchaeon
Dean Allison
16 years ago
"Tezarchaeon" wrote:

UserPostedImage



Haha!! Excellent man, well done 🙂
Cornish Pixie
16 years ago
This has really made my day!!!!! :lol:
Den heb davaz a gollaz i dir
cobba
  • cobba
  • 50.2% (Neutral)
  • Newbie
16 years ago
havnt had such a laugh at her expense for a good while.when she goes i,ll get very drunk with the lads and donate a days pay to Justice for Mineworkers :thumbsup:
cobba

Disclaimer: Mine exploring can be quite dangerous, but then again it can be alright, it all depends on the weather. Please read the proper disclaimer.
© 2005 to 2023 AditNow.co.uk

Dedicated to the memory of Freda Lowe, who believed this was worth saving...