these ones

2. Access of Mines or Workings, Used or Dis-used

2.1. Should you enter any workings, used or dis-used, you agree the following:

2.1.1. You and members of your party or party of which you are a member, will have sought prior permission from the landowner or appropriate body before entering any mine or workings, used or dis-used.

2.1.2. You will seek appropriate training prior to entering any mine or workings, used or dis-used.

2.1.3. You, and members of your party or party of which you are a member, will at all times behave in an appropriate and responsible manner.

2.1.4. You, and members of your party or party of which you are a member, will be suitably and adequately equipped.

2.1.5. You, and members of your party or party of which you are a member, will at all times abide by any instructions, verbal, written or otherwise given by the landowner or appropriate body.

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Hello lap

Can you clear some thing up for me from your first post. is it ok to remove minerals from tips as long as they are of a poor quality but when they start to become something that is of a good quality and might be considered to be something the is worth something you would leave them behind. i just find it strange that because a mineral might be worth money it should be left behind to be destroyed i do not collect thing for the money side of the hobby i would rather trade minerals with other collecters than sell them.

I was also getting a hint of dislike for Mr ***** in that post he has gained alot of his tubs from graverake when that place closed so they can not be labled as stolen because he paid the owners for them and now they are his he can paint them whatever color he likes even pink if it took his fancy. i know ian ***** quite well but i have never been underground with him because i agree with you about the way he collects artifacts but may i remind you Ian is a mine explorer or one of you that does not damage a place he is NOT a mineral collecter.

There are mine owners land owners out there that will allow access to a site if you ask them some have been know to say that it is ok just as long as they dont know what we are getting upto so they can not be held responcable, most land owners will take a dislike to people that come across there private land or over planted feild with out a word these are the ones that are labled as trespassers and give the rest of use a bad name.

I do find it quite funny that i can be got at by some member sof this site for breaking the "rules of the site" but they go out and break them as well


[mod]Edited personal details out in case it causes offence 😉 [/mod]

Salud !
I have no dislike for anyone, though the point I'm trying to make is that if a item is going to be removed, be it for its own preservation. Which is what's done at museums, including the one in Keswick, the point I was trying to make there was that some of the items were a long way from home, though be it for their own good that's probably the best place they can be (apart from Threlkeld and a few other places). What was undertaken for the Keswick collection is on the whole very good indead, especially the rescue for smaller items such as clay pipes etc...

As for your other post, I'm by no means saying that crystaline stuff should be left to rott, but we have to come to some kind of understanding that we must also look at the mine's preservation as a factor, which I'm certain you do, though as keeps being brought up - others don't. For instance I believe it's perfectly alright to take minerals in small quantaties, I'm not concerned about how pretty and colourful they are, what matters more it what impact it is going to have on the enviroment it's been taken from. For example, one would take a chisel and hammer to a sparkling mass in the side of the tunnel perhaps, and just chip a small amount off. No problem. While another continues to burrow in exactly the same place, causing a scare in the side of the tunnel. That isn't so good. The value of the mineral isn't important, but the quantity taken is.
My grandfarther in a mineral collector, and like many knows where the boundaries lie, as I'm sure you do as well.

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3.1.5 could be interperated to mean you should leave well alone a tunnel that is collapsing or when said tunnel ghas come in that it should be left because that is now a formation in the mine

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3.1.5 could be interperated to mean you should leave well alone a tunnel that is collapsing or when said tunnel ghas come in that it should be left because that is now a formation in the mine

Ben I can see where you're coming from about the rights of a mineral collector, and that you came to this website just to find out info. Well, I personally don't know of any places as I'm mainly concentrated on caving and slate mines, though it's good that some people have replied to you nicely. I think the think about a lot of us is that we've seen damage done before.

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Lap

I think that just about sums up where this is going there are people on this site that are on both sides of the debate and there are people in between to diffrent degrees. what i think we can say is that none of use are going to have are minds changed very much by the other partie if we carry on going around and around like we are going over the same points time and time again so why dont we leave this here for now before we all become to bitter to go back and start saying things or doing things that will be counter productive

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Lap

I think that just about sums up where this is going there are people on this site that are on both sides of the debate and there are people in between to diffrent degrees. what i think we can say is that none of use are going to have are minds changed very much by the other partie if we carry on going around and around like we are going over the same points time and time again so why dont we leave this here for now before we all become to bitter to go back and start saying things or doing things that will be counter productive

Oh, so we have spent 5 pages arguing so we can decide to disagree?
That was unpredictable wasn't it? :lol:

if you would like to spen another 5 pages going over it all again that is fine with me

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if you would like to spen another 5 pages going over it all again that is fine with me

I think that would prove a tad tedious and a little pointless Ben 😉

my thoughs are the same

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I believe it's perfectly alright to take minerals in small quantaties, I'm not concerned about how pretty and colourful they are, what matters more it what impact it is going to have on the enviroment it's been taken from.

The only problem with that, as you hinted, is that if, say 100 mineral collectors come along and take just one specimen, there will be nothing left there except a hole! A bit like picking wild flowers, oh just picking one wont make a difference, but before you know it the whole hedgerow has been denuded of flowers!

I'm no expert on this subject but I don't think there is generally a problem here if common sense prevails. 😉 I've just included Penberthy Croft mine in the data base with some explanation and this is an important mineral site but most, if not all, of the minerals come from the dumps as far as I know. It is an SSSI. More detail in the data base. What did I say about circular discussions about three pages ago. 😉

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Since a few have admitted to picking up the odd piece from waste rock I would just like to point out that having a responsible attitude to mineral specimens does not end with whether it is picked off a waste heap, pulled out of a hole or chipped off the wall.

If you decide to take something home then you should, in my view take some responsibility for recording and caring for it. At a minimum, it should be wrapped up to protect it on the journey back and details of where it was found should be recorded on a label which should then be kept with the specimen with both stored somewhere safe.

Whether you find it on a tip or underground, shoving it in your pocket while you finish your explorations so it gets so damaged. Plonking it on the mantlepiece at home until the cat knocks it off or the missus tells you to get rid, so it ends up in the garden or the bin is every bit as much an act of vandalism as the idiots who climb into wheelbarrows and barrels to have their pictures taken in my view.


Not accusing anyone, just sayin.

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I know of a few people with drawers full of stones with labels on them. Nobody gets to see them.

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I know of a few people with drawers full of stones with labels on them. Nobody gets to see them.

Hopefully (and unfortunatly this is seldom the case), when they die some provision is made for their future display rather than relatives just chuking them out with the rubbish.

I know of a few people with drawers full of stones with labels on them. Nobody gets to see them.

Most collectors I know are delighted to bore complete strangers with infinite detail of every rock in their possession
:lol:

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Since a major comprehensive mineralogical study was recently completed on Penberthy Croft by Betterton (2000) and was published in the UK Journal of Mines & Minerals, 20, 7-37. I would assume all concerned acted responsibly. But I note what you say.

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just for the record me and my brother got stopped and searched by the rangers last year after exiting a certain mine in the cauldbeck fells last year,they were watching because someone had been blasting in the mine for minerals,ive been to nenthead twice this xmas so far and noticed in certain areas big piles of broken lead where someone has been hacking away at the vugs the piles werent there earlier this year,i was happy to open my bag because i have no real interest in collecting minerals...now im totaly ignorant of mineral collectors be it a hobby or for profit everyone is entitled to a hobby BUT unfortunatly people like me that only go underground 10 times a year only see the damage caused by the bad element of collectors so i myself typicaly tar all of them with the same brush....to collect a nice mineral involves hacking it out of the rock thereby causing damage,lets face it since the mines have been shut people have been collecting so by now the only minerals left of worth do have to be hacked out because there are none left loose on the floor.
theres a rare mineral only found in one place in the uk in cumbria has been showing up in rock shops for extrordinary amounts of money and it appears that the mine in cauldbeck its coming from has been totaly ruined by persons unknown....this isnt a hobby its wanton destruction for profit.
the problem here is that mine exploration and mineral collecting are 2 types of activity that will never go side by side as one seeks to explore and preserve the other seeks to explore and remove....just to conflicting to ever coexist.
to show how bad it got you even needed a permit to pick off mine dumps in the lakes a few years ago,its not the explorers causing that its the rogue collectors spoiling it for everyone.
i know i dont post much but i thought id put my tupence in you might be one of the good guys ben but unfortunatley the evidence on the walls and floor show that there are a lot of bad eggs out there.hence most peoples hostile attitudes...it only takes one greedy collector with dynamite to make a 200 year old mine turn into an unstable death trap for future explorers.
:smartass:

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Slighly off topic, after suffering the wrath of a few members, good to see Ben has posted some nice pics - good work! :thumbsup:

been spending my christmas break from work sorting out the 3500+ photos i took of mines last year lol should have done it when i took them

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thats a job i always leave for when my internet goes down or when ive forgoten where i took them. 😞

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