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Mine exploration, photographs and mining history for mine explorers, industrial archaeologists, researchers and historians

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Jimbo
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

17 years ago

#21

The difference is that most of these collections were made from working mines where specimens were constantly available for collectors (many miners had a sideline in selling good specimens) 🙂

"PDHMS, WMRG, DCC, Welsh Mines Society, Northern Mines Research Group, Nenthead Mines Society and General Forum Gobshite!"

ben88800
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

17 years ago

#22

so because the mines are no longer working the minerals in them should be left to decay even if they are of international importance

jagman
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

17 years ago

#23

"ben88800" wrote:
so because the mines are no longer working the minerals in them should be left to decay even if they are of international importance

Yes, the mines are more important.
Most of us have seen extensive damage caused by mineral collectors, we may not be ale to stop it but I for one certainly won't be helping them by pointing them in the right direction.
I have seen hoppers pulled out and chambers decimated by collectors, so its unlikely collectors (especially when not personally know to posters here) will get any help or advice on where to go looking for nice specimens.

ben88800
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

17 years ago

#24

ok then left just close down all the mineral department across the country sorry the national museams that are active in field collecting such as the scotish museam may as well go as well because if there is no new material out there to study this hole area of research is more or less dead all because a small group wants everything left as it was when the miners left and have you ever thought about the contribution the collecters do for you aswell the number of places that collecters have reopen that explorers now go down or the amount of time that goes into finding these places from old documents maps etc these are activitoes that help us both

carnkie
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

17 years ago

#25

That could lead us in another direction. That exploited miners were more important. So a photo of say, in Cornwall, of a 19th century cemetery completely overgrown and neglected might be appropriate. :angel: Although the answer to that no doubt is that is why it is important to preserve the heritage in their memory. i.e the mines

The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there.

ChrisP
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

17 years ago

#26

"ben88800" wrote:
so because the mines are no longer working the minerals in them should be left to decay even if they are of international importance

Read section 3 of the disclaimer at the bottom of the page.

jagman
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

17 years ago

#27

Close down whatever museums and mineral dpeartments you see fit, tis no odds to me.
Any good collectors may (or may not) do is largely outweighed by the damage caused.

Oh, the small group you refer to that is screwing it up are not mine explorers, they are the mineral collectors that attack fragile mine infrastucure with pick axes and crowbars.

Sorry Ben, still haven't convinced me there is ANY benefit to pointing mineral collectors in the direction of places with nice specimens.
How you realistically expect any of us to point people in the direction of nice sparkly bits so they can hack them out is beyond me.
Specimens collected from new workings in progress is one thing, destroying history to get them is completely another

JohnnearCfon
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

17 years ago

#28

"ChrisP" wrote:

"ben88800" wrote:
so because the mines are no longer working the minerals in them should be left to decay even if they are of international importance

Read section 3 of the disclaimer at the bottom of the page.

Specifically Section 3. 1. 5. says:-

"3.1.5. Formations, natural or otherwise, will be treated with the utmost of respect and under no circumstances whatsoever will be tampered with, removed, or otherwise interfered with."

Oh, and I could direct a few mineral collectors where to go! 😉

ben88800
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

17 years ago

#29

so you are all sweet and innocent you have never broken anything accidently delibratly or because it was unavodable

Barney
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

17 years ago

#30

"JohnnearCfon" wrote:

Specifically Section 3. 1. 5. says:-

"3.1.5. Formations, natural or otherwise, will be treated with the utmost of respect and under no circumstances whatsoever will be tampered with, removed, or otherwise interfered with."

Keeping it simple, taking minerals from a mine/cave is theft, now then, who wants to talk about laws and acts of parliament?

ben88800
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

17 years ago

#31

not when we have the permision of the owner legaly speaking how many of you have trespassed to get to a mine

JohnnearCfon
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

17 years ago

#32

Theft is a criminal offence, tresspass isn't (at least not in England and Wales not sure about Scotland).

Jimbo
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

17 years ago

#33

"ben88800" wrote:
ok then left just close down all the mineral department across the country sorry the national museams that are active in field collecting such as the scotish museam may as well go as well because if there is no new material out there to study this hole area of research is more or less dead

Most decent specimens come from abroad these days in mining areas that are actively worked & the best specimens are often from other countries (as seen in most museum collections). There is little new material from this country that is not already out there in the public domain or has not been thoroughly researched already, so what is the point :confused:

PS get yourself a decent spell checker 😉

"PDHMS, WMRG, DCC, Welsh Mines Society, Northern Mines Research Group, Nenthead Mines Society and General Forum Gobshite!"

jagman
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

17 years ago

#34

"ben88800" wrote:
not when we have the permision of the owner legaly speaking how many of you have trespassed to get to a mine

Trespass is not criminal.
Are you talking of land owners permision, crown permision or mineral right owners permision?
Of course things get broken, the difference is damage is not inflicted for personal gain or deliberately (unless absolutely necessary for saftey reasons)
Nor has anybody I know damaged anything in order to help themselves to articles (artifacts, mineral specimens or anything else) from a mine.

ben88800
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

17 years ago

#35

i am just thick scum jim

Barney
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

17 years ago

#36

"ben88800" wrote:
not when we have the permision of the owner legaly speaking how many of you have trespassed to get to a mine

Your mistake here Ben is that many land owners think they own a mine, there have been many proven cases disproving this.
Just because it is on their land doesnt mean a thing, they own the surface and nothing to any great depth. A landowner can give you permission to approach the portal if its on his land if the land is not under the C.R.O.W.
The mines and quarries acts (of various years) details this.

Jimbo
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

17 years ago

#37

You said it mate not me 😉

"PDHMS, WMRG, DCC, Welsh Mines Society, Northern Mines Research Group, Nenthead Mines Society and General Forum Gobshite!"

ben88800
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

17 years ago

#38

jim i would beg to differ with you when you say all the good rocks come from overseas if you could come down from your ivory towner where all mine explorers are perfect and all the damage is caused by mineral collecters and see the world class minerals that have come out of the uk in the last couple of years you would change your mind. so far in this debate only spartly lea and carnkie have come across as people you could have a talk with. the rest have shown them selves as narrow minded people that can not respect other people interestes

Jimbo
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

17 years ago

#39

No ivory towners here just the facts that speak for themselves as I and many others have observed the wanton destruction in many of our mines throughout the country.

What world class minerals are these then, give me a link to a site showing these amazing UK discoveries and evidence that they were gathered in a responsible manner.

I do not really have a problem with responsible collecting (though can see little point in the UK now) as long as there is no destruction within the mines.

"PDHMS, WMRG, DCC, Welsh Mines Society, Northern Mines Research Group, Nenthead Mines Society and General Forum Gobshite!"

jagman
50.2% (Neutral)
Newbie

17 years ago

#40

"ben88800" wrote:
.....the rest have shown them selves as narrow minded people that can not respect other people interestes

Presumably by narrow minded you mean people that don't agree with you?
As for respecting interests you are quite correct I don't. Especially where collecting samples is considered more important than preserving the mines that they come from.